From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Bastien Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Apologia for bzr Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2014 14:08:16 +0100 Message-ID: <874n5jx5bz.fsf@bzg.ath.cx> References: <87fvp6bdd9.fsf_-_@ktab.red-bean.com> <83wqiixqbb.fsf@gnu.org> <20140102172804.GB13245@thyrsus.com> <83vby2xo6x.fsf@gnu.org> <20140102183432.GB13506@thyrsus.com> <83sit6xgfg.fsf@gnu.org> <8761q18kni.fsf@thinkpad.tsdh.org> <838uuxxsxu.fsf@gnu.org> <20140103174534.GC17261@thyrsus.com> <8761q1x82k.fsf@ktab.red-bean.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1388840912 15613 80.91.229.3 (4 Jan 2014 13:08:32 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2014 13:08:32 +0000 (UTC) Cc: "Eric S. Raymond" , Eli Zaretskii , emacs-devel@gnu.org, Tassilo Horn To: Karl Fogel Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Jan 04 14:08:38 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1VzQxw-0005sI-LA for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 04 Jan 2014 14:08:36 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:54393 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VzQxw-0005YU-5V for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 04 Jan 2014 08:08:36 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:36682) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VzQxo-0005YE-1S for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 04 Jan 2014 08:08:32 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VzQxn-0008CB-1u for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 04 Jan 2014 08:08:27 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-wg0-x234.google.com ([2a00:1450:400c:c00::234]:62583) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VzQxh-0008BS-KM; Sat, 04 Jan 2014 08:08:21 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-wg0-f52.google.com with SMTP id x13so14131258wgg.31 for ; Sat, 04 Jan 2014 05:08:20 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=sender:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:user-agent:date :message-id:mime-version:content-type; bh=jf+jIzoP83CzNn2at/lkHBpfXzl01O+9kMQJPfbvzX0=; b=F6+jdodo/c4oInxZNK4pdE6A6Im8SuduPSZ3qLNs+i7LG7a8MhaDjjAzBFfLwkE4Sa /9uDgjEtd1FpHUSDhLZLRp9BRRVZWa5cpcnpHz2HGZrGxq4ioMdunSo53LA1e0N048Ax X9dFJ0B6piAgiUHSCLf+9e2DMqnDjWL8gpX5fnQdEXeWVY/0tBOPwBgpUED1L6uXsky9 ncWj72EXxxMATZuISpbbcLajeJiPk37EKQpzlGK0959mZQMjiHlsuz+TktdLzFLATSxv 5Yrf83bDIfizeqBeS7tiFs7MlR9DwXBTL4R3Ae5E6Yw0cWGk9QxwhXkHtWJdeUD/8mfP jm4w== X-Received: by 10.194.6.161 with SMTP id c1mr295434wja.89.1388840900520; Sat, 04 Jan 2014 05:08:20 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from bzg.localdomain (mar75-2-81-56-68-112.fbx.proxad.net. [81.56.68.112]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id ey3sm7580919wib.4.2014.01.04.05.08.17 for (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 04 Jan 2014 05:08:18 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: by bzg.localdomain (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 7947A1C2063E; Sat, 4 Jan 2014 14:08:16 +0100 (CET) In-Reply-To: <8761q1x82k.fsf@ktab.red-bean.com> (Karl Fogel's message of "Fri, 03 Jan 2014 11:56:51 -0600") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2a00:1450:400c:c00::234 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:167281 Archived-At: Karl Fogel writes: > "Eric S. Raymond" writes: >>There are other things we need to do to let sunlight and fresh air into the >>room. The people who think of Emacs as a relic of bygone decades inhabited >>by graying neckbeards are not, alas, entirely wrong. And I say that as >>arguably one of the neckbeards myself... > > Right now, two of the biggest sources of hacking energy in the > Emacsosphere are in git repositories separate from Emacs' own bzr > repository: Org Mode and Gnus. Our switching to git will help reduce at > least the degree of separation. Well, I don't really know where Emacs hacking energy is really spent on, but I discover new Emacs stuff every day so my impression is that the ecosystem at large is quite productive. > Whether those projects eventually host their "socially agreed on" > primary development branches in Emacs' repository is another question; I > don't know those dev communities well enough to say, despite being a > heavy user of both packages :-). But the mere fact that I instinctively > consider them to be somewhat separate developer communities from Emacs > itself may be partly an artifact of our having been on bzr for so > long. Emacs maintainers and Carsten should really have the last word on this, but directly hacking Org from within Emacs would be a plus. With a tighter release schedule, we will all gain from this: users (no more separate install) and Emacs (expose Org contributors to Emacs directly.) -- Bastien