From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Stephen J. Turnbull" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Apologia for bzr Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2014 19:03:00 +0900 Message-ID: <874n5ikap7.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <20140103152117.GA16679@c3po> <20140104082857.GA22010@thyrsus.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1388916258 27431 80.91.229.3 (5 Jan 2014 10:04:18 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2014 10:04:18 +0000 (UTC) Cc: esr@thyrsus.com, Richard Stallman , Emacs-Devel devel To: Lennart Borgman Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Jan 05 11:04:24 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1VzkZC-00027m-PA for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 05 Jan 2014 11:04:22 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:57250 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VzkZC-0008Ce-0n for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 05 Jan 2014 05:04:22 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:51141) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VzkZ4-0008Bz-Ub for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 05 Jan 2014 05:04:20 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VzkYz-0000f7-Gt for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 05 Jan 2014 05:04:14 -0500 Original-Received: from mgmt2.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp ([130.158.97.224]:43051) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VzkYz-0000V3-0G; Sun, 05 Jan 2014 05:04:09 -0500 Original-Received: from uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp [130.158.99.156]) by mgmt2.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id DCE87970A32; Sun, 5 Jan 2014 19:03:00 +0900 (JST) Original-Received: by uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix, from userid 1000) id CC3671A2E7D; Sun, 5 Jan 2014 19:03:00 +0900 (JST) In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: VM undefined under 21.5 (beta34) "kale" 2a0f42961ed4 XEmacs Lucid (x86_64-unknown-linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 130.158.97.224 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:167352 Archived-At: Lennart Borgman writes: > On Sat, Jan 4, 2014 at 9:28 AM, Eric S. Raymond wrote: >> Richard Stallman : >>> But even though we did not do anything wrong, it is unfortunate >>> for us nonetheless. =C2=A0If it is possible to change Emacs to use some >>> standard modern terms instead of its current terms, it might be >>> worth doing, even if it means a series of renaming spread over a >>> period of years. I don't know if it's absolutely necessary to rename the functions, although it probably would help many potential developers, including many who don't have a very good grasp of English and know "cut" as a sound that describes a computer operation that has nothing to do with knives or card tricks. Rewriting the tutorial might be more appropriate. >> Mostly there *aren't* any "standard modern terms", You're getting too deep here. I'm pretty sure what's under discussion is cut vs. kill, paste v. yank. >> because there are no other editors in which there is so much >> decoupling between the local equivalents of our core concepts that >> they need to be described separately. True of buffer, I guess, but not of window vs. frame. >> There's a parallel with git jargon here... Indeed. > It is very different in one way. An editor is a tool you start > with. That's not what Eric's talking about. The point he is making, it seems to me, is that Emacs is not an editor, it is a text editing environment or toolkit. Similarly, git is not a VCS, it is an environment for developing a VCS. Not to the same extent that today's Emacs is a development environment for editors, but then Richard had several years of experience with using a editor language to create the Emacs Lisp and GNU Emacs that is the direct ancestor of today's Emacs.