From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eric Brown Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: enable MELPA & Marmalade by defaul [was: mykie.el] Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2014 19:08:20 -0600 Message-ID: <874n5gfvjv.fsf@mac.com> References: <87bnzshlo5.fsf@flea.lifelogs.com> <87bnzshlo5.fsf@flea.lifelogs.com> <20140103.200846.1574807089640559527.cokesboy@gmail.com> <87a9f8g22x.fsf@flea.lifelogs.com> <76f5b9cd-3452-4189-b3a0-30dc55a3ee55@default> <87wqic65kj.fsf@wanadoo.es> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1389065657 31753 80.91.229.3 (7 Jan 2014 03:34:17 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2014 03:34:17 +0000 (UTC) Cc: =?utf-8?Q?=C3=93scar?= Fuentes , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Drew Adams Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Jan 07 04:34:23 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1W0NQs-00066S-NU for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 07 Jan 2014 04:34:22 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:38615 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W0NQs-0004Is-B2 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 06 Jan 2014 22:34:22 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:60294) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W0L9l-0001mq-QR for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 06 Jan 2014 20:08:39 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W0L9f-0002AP-4y for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 06 Jan 2014 20:08:33 -0500 Original-Received: from st11p00mm-asmtpout004.mac.com ([17.172.81.3]:50276 helo=st11p00mm-asmtp004.mac.com) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W0L9e-0002AD-W8 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 06 Jan 2014 20:08:27 -0500 Original-Received: from air (c-50-151-36-62.hsd1.in.comcast.net [50.151.36.62]) by st11p00mm-asmtp004.mac.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 7u4-27.08(7.0.4.27.7) 64bit (built Aug 22 2013)) with ESMTPSA id <0MZ000GBUB5XPQ60@st11p00mm-asmtp004.mac.com> for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 07 Jan 2014 01:08:25 +0000 (GMT) X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:5.11.87,1.0.14,0.0.0000 definitions=2014-01-06_05:2014-01-07, 2014-01-06, 1970-01-01 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 spamscore=0 suspectscore=2 phishscore=0 adultscore=0 bulkscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=7.0.1-1308280000 definitions=main-1401060189 In-reply-to: User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3 (berkeley-unix) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 17.172.81.3 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 06 Jan 2014 22:34:19 -0500 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:167564 Archived-At: Hi Drew, Drew Adams writes: >> >> GNU ELPA (enabled by default with Emacs, unlike MELPA or >> >> Marmalade). >> > >> > Apropos: Why shouldn't GNU Emacs enable all three by default? >> > >> > That would help GNU Emacs users more, I think. >> >> One easy answer is that MELPA and Marmalade are non under the >> control of the Emacs prooject. > > So? GNU Emacs is not responsible for whatever it might be that > those repos have or do. And I think we (should) know by now > that most, if not all, of what they do can be helpful for Emacs > users. I think this falls into the category of "should a GNU project recommend repositories that contain non-free software?" (vide, inter alia, "Real Men Do Not Attack Straw Men") RMS and his defense of the FSF position (and composure in the face of very shabby treatment) are remarkable. > Should `eww' give users access, by default, only to web sites > that GNU Emacs Dev (TM) has vetted ("tested", "released"...)? > Who will do all the vetting? > If Emacs (or any GNU/FSF program) actively prevented the installation of software, or surfing to a site of the users' choice, that would be censorship. It is another matter entirely to _recommend_ the software sites, because the FSF believes that this constitutes some form of complicity in leading someone astray. (Whether the end-user believes it is immaterial.) > Think users, not lawyers. This is not GNanny, or at least it > did not used to be. It is trivial for a user to enable these repositories. What is not trivial is endeavoring to maintain a libre software installation, but having non-free repositories enabled. It is truly shocking that proprietary "feature-enhancing" extensions can get installed onto a system by package managers, though the selected software package (e.g. Chromium) was in fact libre. >From another perspective, it makes it difficult to develop software systems for commercial purposes, because can't be sure that my company can use for any purpose or redistribute the codes. In principle, a repo author may rise like a submarine, when he discovers that he could strike it rich because of (unintended) license violations. IANAL, but I believe that unless otherwise stated, all rights are reserved. Best regards, Eric