From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Pascal J. Bourguignon" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: emacs stackexchange beta site Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2014 01:46:33 +0200 Organization: Informatimago Message-ID: <874mw3xjfq.fsf@kuiper.lan.informatimago.com> References: <874mw5q15w.fsf@debian.uxu> <87a95wy73q.fsf@debian.uxu> <8761gkdto0.fsf@panda.goosenet.in> <87fvfncugw.fsf@panda.goosenet.in> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1411170656 16941 80.91.229.3 (19 Sep 2014 23:50:56 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2014 23:50:56 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Sep 20 01:50:51 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1XV7wu-0005b4-Ve for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 20 Sep 2014 01:50:49 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:32849 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XV7wu-00038i-MV for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 19 Sep 2014 19:50:48 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:40422) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XV7wM-0002xr-BA for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 19 Sep 2014 19:50:20 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XV7wF-0004e2-Bv for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 19 Sep 2014 19:50:14 -0400 Original-Received: from plane.gmane.org ([80.91.229.3]:40499) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XV7wF-0004RD-2Q for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 19 Sep 2014 19:50:07 -0400 Original-Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1XV7w7-0005M8-Ca for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 20 Sep 2014 01:49:59 +0200 Original-Received: from amontsouris-654-1-141-121.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr ([90.46.196.121]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sat, 20 Sep 2014 01:49:59 +0200 Original-Received: from pjb by amontsouris-654-1-141-121.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sat, 20 Sep 2014 01:49:59 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 60 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: amontsouris-654-1-141-121.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwAQMAAABtzGvEAAAABlBMVEUAAAD///+l2Z/dAAAA oElEQVR4nK3OsRHCMAwF0O8YQufUNIQRGIAja9CxSA55AxZgFO4coMgYrEDDQZWPIlNAjwq9 033pbOBPtbXuB6PKNBn5gZkhGa86Z4x2wE67O+06WxGD/HCOGR0deY3f9Ijwwt7rNGNf6Oac l/GuZTF1wFGKiYYHKSFAkjIo1b6sCYS1sVmFhhhahKQssRjRT90ITWUk6vvK3RsPGs+M1RuR mV+hO/VvFAAAAABJRU5ErkJggg== X-Accept-Language: fr, es, en User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:YzIwNjFhNDY2MTAwM2RlNTM3N2JmZjU4MTY5ZDY5MjQ1NGExZjdjNw== X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 80.91.229.3 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:100058 Archived-At: Udyant Wig writes: > "Pascal J. Bourguignon" writes: > | In principle, because they are centralized services, therefore single > | points of failure, or worse, of control (spying, censuring). > > I can accept that they are single points of failure. > > The point about spying could be applied to any forum, e.g., this very > newsgroup: any agency could be monitoring it. Did I misread the last > point? The spying is not done on what goes on the channel. It's done on the meta data around it. Google and others gather information not about newsgroups, but about YOU, cross referencing your phone number, your postal address (your GPS coordinates), all your searches (and the page you visit thru clicking on search results), your friends (circles), all your emails (gmail), and so on. This is this data that you don't want spying agencies to have access to, but that is centralized in google's data centers. > | Also, they're not present a unique (or a small number of) interfaces, > | but each web site has it's own interfaces (user interface or API). > | Therefore they are very hard to use, compared to NNTP API to which > | each user can apply consitenly the user interface he chooses. > | > | Also, sociologically, the fact that it's easy to find error messages > | or other help on Google/SX makes system authors LESS motivated to > | provide working and documented systems in the first place. > | > | This is not a good thing. > > I can accept both of these as well. > > | Notably, it only works for popular systems. And error messages are > | not discriminating of the various situations: often I have an error > | message and find on SX ten different situations where it was issued, > | and none matching mine. In the end, I still have to debug by myself. > > I have faced this many times, too. > > | Google/SX, it's the blind leading the blinds. > > Now, given that Emacs has (fine) manuals, comes with sources, has a > community spread over many newsgroups and mailing lists, has the Emacs > Wiki, and has a presence on IRC, how then is the announcement to be > viewed? Positively, negatively, or neutrally? Given that despite all those inconvenient, unwashed masses use google/SX, it may be a good thing to do some publicity there, to attract new users and teach them about emacs and a more independant and free computing. -- __Pascal Bourguignon__ http://www.informatimago.com/ “The factory of the future will have only two employees, a man and a dog. The man will be there to feed the dog. The dog will be there to keep the man from touching the equipment.” -- Carl Bass CEO Autodesk