From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Mark Oteiza Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Calling (package-initialize) sooner during initialization Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2015 16:05:41 -0400 Message-ID: <874molyuwa.fsf@udel.edu> References: <20150411231042.GA25541@odonien> <877fthgur7.fsf@udel.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1428869170 23091 80.91.229.3 (12 Apr 2015 20:06:10 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2015 20:06:10 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Apr 12 22:06:02 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1YhO8o-0006Lp-HU for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 12 Apr 2015 22:06:02 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:46162 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YhO8n-0006RZ-Me for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 12 Apr 2015 16:06:01 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:57363) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YhO8b-0006RJ-J5 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 12 Apr 2015 16:05:50 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YhO8W-0005dM-J7 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 12 Apr 2015 16:05:49 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-qk0-f179.google.com ([209.85.220.179]:35737) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YhO8W-0005d6-FK for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 12 Apr 2015 16:05:44 -0400 Original-Received: by qkhg7 with SMTP id g7so140759083qkh.2 for ; Sun, 12 Apr 2015 13:05:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=vtzF1m0uhT4av81R1JpA5ijRCdVJF14ywGmynT00sLo=; b=Xzc8cHOirD1e/JUCk1c9W58WAXEWpj/yusP74N+nDsglbGmnHl1NKBSLUAKTsyIJK3 hkjwWCem7rPKZNPFxN0k84/UfsOxT+JFDAo8phwDRSmPs22A0ySZqlu5e+qv0XSvLKZL 8Lm/d2SGKMEKlWaIz5AQ+5QG/1GH8DZJCYGWx8vMFnZmiC2w0zRZzm/twDTmAQgBWMIz A0VGN/Ze0S3IW1reqGOTDwj4Lc9mkgAPlNtBIol3R3wyErQA34lQHSMGmegc+iNI/RSK koQ03MvdKGpeYQ8KEMEuvuLEJafGsMrzEyzEPjt0wsNhAZBePZslcYUcLMVJ0OWqdI8D Oxpw== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQnyeStalEStQoSgAfDHk9XhWb2mOsasnR8135/YpUurDfUI0JnzMS2ZZYRMASMbdHeFf84s X-Received: by 10.55.33.94 with SMTP id h91mr22748138qkh.69.1428869143907; Sun, 12 Apr 2015 13:05:43 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from holos.localdomain (c-73-172-248-173.hsd1.md.comcast.net. [73.172.248.173]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id m202sm4163587qhb.30.2015.04.12.13.05.42 for (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 12 Apr 2015 13:05:42 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by holos.localdomain (Postfix, from userid 1000) id B6483691DD; Sun, 12 Apr 2015 16:05:41 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: (Artur Malabarba's message of "Sun, 12 Apr 2015 20:43:31 +0100") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 209.85.220.179 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:185355 Archived-At: Artur Malabarba writes: >> > I'm just glad this issue is up for the slaughter, I don't care whether >> > we kill it with a magnum or a tennis racket. >> >> Better documenting the relationship between custom.el and package.el >> should have been considered over resorting to indiscriminately >> clobbering init.el. > > This is not an issue with custom.el. The custom.el problem is one of > the consequences. Another consequence is that users can't paste > configurations into their init file in the way that 90% of the > (emacs-related) internet is telling them to. > By adding the chosen snippet to the user's init file we are preventing > this sort of problem for new users, instead of telling them it's their > fault for not understanding package.el. Perhaps if the related documentation didn't suck, then 90% of the advice on the (emacs-related) internet wouldn't be incorrect. >> (info "(emacs) Package Installation") talks about >> use of (package-initialize) in a user's init file. This could be >> improved. Alternatively, why bother having the documentation if >> Emacs is going to be in the habit of forcing this behaviour? > > Nobody is being forced. The added snippet clearly explains that you > can comment it out. The only thing that's being forced upon you is the > presence of 21 characters in your init file. "Nobody is being forced." "The only thing that's being forced [=E2=80=A6]" Wow. >> I have never needed package-initialize in my init.el for things >> installed by package.el, either from an archive or locally. Why am I >> subjected to having my init.el overwritten when I install anything with >> package.el? > > You will have one sexp added to your init-file exactly once. You are > being =E2=80=9Csubjected=E2=80=9D to that because a lot of other people w= ere being > subjected things much worse (see the original thread). > You only need to have =E2=80=9C;(package-initialize)=E2=80=9D somewhere i= n your init > file and this feature will never ever affect your again (it will never > even visit your init file again). Yes, it seems the internet is giving bad advice and Emacs will now require a specific string in a file to solve issues stemming from that. I suppose it's a fine solution in that it's easy to patch out of Emacs.