From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Nic Ferrier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Calling (package-initialize) sooner during initialization Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2015 19:25:59 +0100 Message-ID: <874modwax4.fsf@ferrier.me.uk> References: <87383xk4ia.fsf@taylan.uni.cx> <87d231wm3y.fsf@ferrier.me.uk> <87twwdii0v.fsf@taylan.uni.cx> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1429381589 25228 80.91.229.3 (18 Apr 2015 18:26:29 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2015 18:26:29 +0000 (UTC) Cc: =?us-ascii?Q?=3D=3FUTF-8=3FB=3FVGF5bGFuIFVscmljaCBCYXnEsXJsxLEvS2FtbWV?= =?us-ascii?Q?y=3F=3D?= , emacs-devel To: bruce.connor.am@gmail.com Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Apr 18 20:26:22 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1YjXRc-0000hH-Td for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 18 Apr 2015 20:26:21 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:46532 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YjXRc-0002XD-7l for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 18 Apr 2015 14:26:20 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:42151) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YjXRO-0002VH-Jo for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 18 Apr 2015 14:26:07 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YjXRJ-0008PT-Ki for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 18 Apr 2015 14:26:06 -0400 Original-Received: from static.17.66.46.78.clients.your-server.de ([78.46.66.17]:43126 helo=po1.ferrier.me.uk) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YjXRJ-0008PI-FV for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 18 Apr 2015 14:26:01 -0400 Original-Received: from nicferrier-dell-xps (140.35.155.90.in-addr.arpa [90.155.35.140]) by po1.ferrier.me.uk (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 2C404AC05E2; Sat, 18 Apr 2015 20:54:13 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from nicferrier-XPS13-9333 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nicferrier-dell-xps (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CA85607EA; Sat, 18 Apr 2015 19:25:59 +0100 (IST) In-Reply-To: (bruce connor am's message of "Sat, 18 Apr 2015 18:35:55 +0100") X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 78.46.66.17 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:185627 Archived-At: bruce.connor.am@gmail.com writes: >> Nic Ferrier writes: >> >> > My preference would be to add a post-package-init.el thereby not >> > changing the defined semantics of the current system at all. >> >> That would be good for backwards compatibility, but won't solve the >> problem of people asking why a function in their init.el is undefined >> when they installed the package providing it. > > Precisely. Whichever solution is adopted, it must work out of the box for > people who do nothing but add (require 'some-package) to their init file. > The goal here is to find the smallest semantics change that affects the > fewest people, given that restriction. I am kind of throwing up my arms in frustration at this. A way was picked a long time ago. Y'all now want to break that way in the most breaking way possible instead of being incremental. Are you sure that this will be least damaging to most people? Why are you sure? Nic