From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Marcin Borkowski Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Long file names in Dired Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2015 10:18:54 +0200 Message-ID: <874mo4hb81.fsf@mbork.pl> References: <87sibq9v12.fsf@debian.uxu> <87618lro4x.fsf@debian.uxu> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1429950155 11399 80.91.229.3 (25 Apr 2015 08:22:35 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2015 08:22:35 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Apr 25 10:22:22 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1YlvLt-0000Hh-VT for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 25 Apr 2015 10:22:18 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:47641 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YlvLt-0008Hl-DX for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 25 Apr 2015 04:22:17 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:59454) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YlvKq-0006Ne-4y for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 25 Apr 2015 04:21:13 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YlvKm-0003Qd-SP for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 25 Apr 2015 04:21:12 -0400 Original-Received: from mail.mojserwer.eu ([2a01:5e00:2:52::8]:50074) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YlvKm-0001cQ-3J for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 25 Apr 2015 04:21:08 -0400 Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.mojserwer.eu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 100164F608F for ; Sat, 25 Apr 2015 10:19:24 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at mail.mojserwer.eu Original-Received: from mail.mojserwer.eu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.mojserwer.eu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NExBT4SY5tcX for ; Sat, 25 Apr 2015 10:19:09 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from localhost (unknown [109.232.24.146]) by mail.mojserwer.eu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 92DEA4F608C for ; Sat, 25 Apr 2015 10:19:08 +0200 (CEST) In-reply-to: <87618lro4x.fsf@debian.uxu> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2a01:5e00:2:52::8 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:103991 Archived-At: On 2015-04-25, at 03:29, Emanuel Berg wrote: > Marcin Borkowski writes: > >> (And I have reasons - basically, BibTeX is a pile of >> crap. I agree that it /is/ less unusable for writing >> in English exclusively, but again - it creates /a >> lot/ more problems than it solves.) > > You mean you write in Polish at your universities? Of course we do, sometimes. Textbooks/lecture notes, for instance. And articles on (non-mathematical) stuff which is relevant only for Poland anyway. (Like research on the changing syllabi of school subjects in Poland.) > (Not to say LaTeX, BibTeX, etc. cannot be used outside > them walls of science, of course: I always said if > writers learned LaTeX - and some HTML and CSS for PR - > they would put the entire publishing industry out > of business.) And - as you point out - LaTeX is not exclusive to academia. Though I don't agree with you about the publishing industry: authors usually suck at typography, and they usually don't care anyway. >> That said, I like that idea, though I would use >> BibLaTeX (which is a modern replacement for BibTeX, >> curing many - even though not all - of its problems >> (the main one which it doesn't help is the format >> for multiple authors), or amsrefs, which is less >> powerful than Bib(La)TeX, but has a much saner >> format for multiple names (and is /way/ easier to >> configure than Bib(La)TeX). > > I have no experience with amsrefs. I am unsure if > I use BibTeX or BibLaTeX. > > This is the part of the Makefile that does the .bib > file: > > biber -q ${name} # get .bbl (from .bcf) > > And this is the line in the .tex file: > > \usepackage[backend=biber]{biblatex} > > So when I said BibTex, probably that should > be BibLaTeX! Yes. > As for the problem with multiple authors, I haven't > came across that. I have many entries of the kind: > > @techreport{scheduling-of-mixed-criticality-applications, > author = {Georgia Giannopoulou and Nikolay Stoimenov and Pengcheng Huang and Lothar Thiele}, > title = {Scheduling of Mixed-Criticality Applications on Resource-Sharing Multicore Systems}, > institution = {Computer Engineering and Networks Laboratory, ETH Zurich, 8092 Zurich, Switzerland}, > year = 2013 > } > > You mean the problem is, that turns out as "et. al." > in the PDF? I'm sure that can be configured if you > have a problem with it. I don't, and besides no one > care for references anyway - just put them there and > then forget about them, is what people do. No. The problem is that if LaTeX happens to hyphenate the author's name, or the publisher's name, or the title, or the university name, etc. (which is quite possible), it should do it according to the rules for the language of that particular field. The amsrefs package is the only tool I know of that supports setting the language independently for each field. And with BibTeX's author syntax it would be rather awkward to implement. (Another thing - as I mentioned - is that that whole first/von/last/jr stuff is quite English-centered. In non-Germanic languages this is sometimes completely irrelevant - take Russian with its "patronimicum", which is similar to the middle name, but is someting else (it's basically things like "John, son of Jack, Smith). In Polish, we don't have "von", and using "jr" is very rare, though possible, but seems (at least to me) extremely pretentious. Or take Icelandic, where the name structure is totally different than in other languages - many Icelanders /don't ebven have/ the family name (and they sort their names by the first name!). Or - as was discussed in the exchange I linked to - German "von" and Dutch "van" are semantically (and typographically) different. Or take some Asian languages, where the order of the first and last names is inverted.) And there are quite a few people who /do/ care about the references. For instance, I work for a journal, where we (with a friend of mine) are responsible for (among others) typesetting the papers. We sometimes spend/waste quite a lot of time on bibliographies (mainly because authors "don't care" - if they actually used BibTeX and not hand-crafted, inconsistent formatting, things would be a lot easier for us...). I even wrote an Emacs utility which helps transform such inconsistent pile of s##t into proper markup. Best, -- Marcin Borkowski http://octd.wmi.amu.edu.pl/en/Marcin_Borkowski Faculty of Mathematics and Computer Science Adam Mickiewicz University