From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: hw Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: delete-selection-mode as default Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2018 01:45:59 +0200 Organization: my virtual residence Message-ID: <874lemv07c.fsf@toy.adminart.net> References: <83k1nxvm5j.fsf@gnu.org> <87sh2ih0bp.fsf@fastmail.fm> <770f48a8-664a-40ae-8e03-19f6aad248b6@default> <20180910181615.GA4829@ACM> <874lev3bq4.fsf@toy.adminart.net> <20180912131602.GA5582@ACM> <87d0tihxzw.fsf@toy.adminart.net> <20180913174640.GB4019@ACM> <8736udkuit.fsf@toy.adminart.net> <20180914104833.GA4103@ACM> <83k1nojgia.fsf@gnu.org> <874leq799e.fsf@toy.adminart.net> <205df9be-2e5c-4cc4-a13a-7c80eb63bedc@default> <87in363zgq.fsf@toy.adminart.net> <87a7oh4mdm.fsf@toy.adminart.net> <831s9tidjc.fsf@gnu.org> <87r2hs15fv.fsf@toy.adminart.net> <83worjf1el.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1537323978 6473 195.159.176.226 (19 Sep 2018 02:26:18 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2018 02:26:18 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: spacibba@aol.com, joostkremers@fastmail.fm, npostavs@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org, yurivkhan@gmail.com, acm@muc.de, drew.adams@oracle.com, phillip.lord@russet.org.uk To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Sep 19 04:26:13 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1g2SBw-0001YH-RE for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 19 Sep 2018 04:26:13 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:43331 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1g2SE3-0006Mb-2Q for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 18 Sep 2018 22:28:23 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:53394) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1g2SD1-0006D4-U9 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 18 Sep 2018 22:27:21 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1g2SD1-0003Kn-1G for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 18 Sep 2018 22:27:19 -0400 Original-Received: from mo6-p01-ob.smtp.rzone.de ([2a01:238:20a:202:5301::9]:22318) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1g2SD0-0003HX-I8; Tue, 18 Sep 2018 22:27:18 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1537324035; s=strato-dkim-0002; d=adminart.net; h=References:Message-ID:Date:In-Reply-To:Subject:Cc:To:From: X-RZG-CLASS-ID:X-RZG-AUTH:From:Subject:Sender; bh=kHffAkDEfFgK7vn7eiNIZo6axhnmt430gEX1lhDP+2M=; b=pb4KsvVpxsbjm14AnT03KZ814U3pVUZeiWE4HkMMBhGhV/tK8qsFaNTj8d1h+7r3hI nNTpmFOisPQ8bg5a/EvKwsehDMDLRyPa+Spfy7mPd1vanzvn6bayBzGjicVQgMxcL6Fo zHUfp29tnZ2Bq7oFgUv0A+ygJ2RMw2hTuxDZrJ0OzW5CmdP61bmi+Czp3SglW6+FfbKC eXJYRhu0gFVCGtXJQ2kH35oYcYQ37a3/2iJM+FUQixIVC0NT75OJwlHVJXviX/Fk30iR i+XbYjcjV5fm4nU3SZcogt+5YQsQkyhLEjmMcrCSWKNnjep5wlFZ3sJWKorXj3pF7enl Q4QA== X-RZG-AUTH: ":O2kGeEG7b/pS1FS4THaxjVF9w0vVgfQ9xGcjwO5WMRo5c+h5ceMqQWZ3yrBp+AVdIIwXjneEe9k=" X-RZG-CLASS-ID: mo00 Original-Received: from himinbjorg.adminart.net by smtp.strato.de (RZmta 44.1 DYNA|AUTH) with ESMTPSA id 20bdb7u8J2R7G6W (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (curve secp521r1 with 521 ECDH bits, eq. 15360 bits RSA)) (Client did not present a certificate); Wed, 19 Sep 2018 04:27:07 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from toy.adminart.net ([192.168.3.55]) by himinbjorg.adminart.net with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1g2SCp-0001dm-4F; Wed, 19 Sep 2018 04:27:07 +0200 In-Reply-To: <83worjf1el.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Tue, 18 Sep 2018 15:14:26 +0300") X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2a01:238:20a:202:5301::9 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:229957 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> From: hw >> Cc: spacibba@aol.com, joostkremers@fastmail.fm, npostavs@gmail.com, >> emacs-devel@gnu.org, yurivkhan@gmail.com, acm@muc.de, >> drew.adams@oracle.com, phillip.lord@russet.org.uk >> Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2018 23:22:04 +0200 >> >> >> Emacs has point and (the end of) the region (selection) always entangled >> >> with no way to separate them or to disable the region. That is what I >> >> dislike so much, and it causes all kinds of issues. >> > >> > It is also why it is so convenient to define the region without using >> > the mouse. With the current way of defining region, you just go to >> > the other end, and you are immediately ready to invoke commands that >> > operate on the region. How do you do that if point is not on one of >> > the edges of the region, except by dragging the mouse? >> >> Commands limited to the selection can work with the selection without a >> need to even have the selection displayed on screen. > > I don't see how this is relevant to the aspect of the Emacs region to > which I was referring. It refers to your idea that it would be inconvenient having to use a pointing device to do something with a selection. >> If you want to start making a selection where the cursor currently is, >> simply use the key binding to set a marker. Otherwise, navigate to >> where you want to set the marker first. You can use a trackball or not, >> it's unrelated. > > How is this different from what we have now? If you were referring to a persistent selection, the difference would be that the persistent selection has two markers rather than only one. Still you do not need to use a pointing device. >> To be able to go to the other end of the selection, you first have to >> make one. > > That's why Emacs has a lot of commands that mark significant portions > of text: word, sentence, paragraph, sexp, etc. Emacs also has a > matching set of cursor motion commands. It makes all of that easy. You could even use a pointing device to select something. >> There is no going to "the other end" of a region before a >> selection has been made, and once one has been made, there is no need to >> do that in order to do something with the selection > > Emacs does that the other way around, but the result is no less > convenient and efficient. How do you go to the other end of a selection before it has been made, and why would you?