From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eric Abrahamsen Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#35261: 26.1; EBDB Documentation Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2019 12:51:33 -0700 Message-ID: <874l6vgkhm.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> References: <87r2a5nyn1.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <87a7gronz1.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <877ebtlr0o.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="70881"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: "35261@debbugs.gnu.org" <35261@debbugs.gnu.org> To: David Masterson Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Apr 18 21:52:17 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1hHD4z-000IIn-HK for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Thu, 18 Apr 2019 21:52:17 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46462 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hHD4v-0002UM-IQ for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Thu, 18 Apr 2019 15:52:13 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:41421) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hHD4n-0002Tv-2Z for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 18 Apr 2019 15:52:06 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hHD4m-0003VD-1d for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 18 Apr 2019 15:52:05 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:57225) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hHD4l-0003UV-91 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 18 Apr 2019 15:52:03 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hHD4k-0000cN-QD for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 18 Apr 2019 15:52:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eric Abrahamsen Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2019 19:52:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 35261 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 35261-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B35261.15556171032348 (code B ref 35261); Thu, 18 Apr 2019 19:52:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 35261) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Apr 2019 19:51:43 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42536 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hHD4R-0000bo-9x for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 18 Apr 2019 15:51:43 -0400 Original-Received: from ericabrahamsen.net ([52.70.2.18]:41892 helo=mail.ericabrahamsen.net) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hHD4P-0000bY-2X for 35261@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 18 Apr 2019 15:51:41 -0400 Original-Received: from localhost (97-126-87-168.tukw.qwest.net [97.126.87.168]) (Authenticated sender: eric@ericabrahamsen.net) by mail.ericabrahamsen.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 9CB98FA028; Thu, 18 Apr 2019 19:51:34 +0000 (UTC) In-Reply-To: (David Masterson's message of "Wed, 17 Apr 2019 03:14:20 +0000") X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 209.51.188.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:157804 Archived-At: On 04/17/19 03:14 AM, David Masterson wrote: > Eric Abrahamsen writes: > >> On 04/15/19 20:56 PM, David Masterson wrote: > >>> On that, it seems that the documentation is still evolving in that >>> area. For instance, looking at the documentation of ebdb-field-* >>> variables says that they are obsolete as of 25.1 and the documentation >>> is relatively low, so the error above would be confusing in that you'd >>> wonder if you were looking at the right variable. > >> Unfortunately this doesn't have to do with EBDB, but rather with a weird >> interaction between the help system and EIEIO. Class names apparently >> once functioned as variables, but no longer do, and so Emacs complains >> when you try to treat one as a variable. You'll have better luck using >> help to look up the *function* definitions of the class names, not the >> variable definition. > > Ouch! That's not logical and will need some explanation somewhere. The > logical assumption would be that the function that is asking for input > is using some variable (structure) as a reference for what it expects as > input, so, when the error reports a name in the error, the first thought > would be that that is the structure to look at to get the clue as to > what it's looking for. It's a little confusing (to say the least) for > the lay person to see functions and variables with the same name. > > Something to lay out a little more as a primer in the Info docs? Mmm, I'm not really inclined to spend a lot of time explaining the weirdnesses of Emacs help system in the EBDB manual, but maybe a pointer to the function docstrings of the class symbols would be okay.