From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Juri Linkov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: "Non-standard UI", Date: Sun, 08 Mar 2020 02:53:19 +0200 Organization: LINKOV.NET Message-ID: <874kuzk694.fsf@mail.linkov.net> References: <505E43E1.9090801@yandex.ru> <87o92h7fv1.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <878stissii.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87muhtzh8z.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <875zfvzfvp.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <8772f3cb-5af2-f89a-db47-682d9feef125@yandex.ru> <87lfoqjr20.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87y2slup32.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <318f40f9-78ae-d739-6ac8-b7bb04598aad@yandex.ru> <877e022uul.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <3c0c8d61-1df2-b481-655a-d0b610ee6324@yandex.ru> <8736ap10x9.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <3631ca1d-9a11-8ff6-08bb-6d18268e47d2@yandex.ru> <87r1y7odxt.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87ftemuzd6.fsf@mail.linkov.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="24164"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) Cc: emacs-devel To: Dmitry Gutov Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Mar 08 02:06:35 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jAkOp-0006EO-Pd for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 08 Mar 2020 02:06:35 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:53956 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jAkOo-0004k8-SL for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 07 Mar 2020 20:06:34 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:55263) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jAkOF-00045x-71 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 07 Mar 2020 20:06:00 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1jAkOD-00074Z-UM for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 07 Mar 2020 20:05:58 -0500 Original-Received: from buffalo.birch.relay.mailchannels.net ([23.83.209.24]:33137) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1jAkOD-0006zE-ER for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 07 Mar 2020 20:05:57 -0500 X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|jurta@jurta.org Original-Received: from relay.mailchannels.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A168E34033E; Sun, 8 Mar 2020 01:05:53 +0000 (UTC) Original-Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a44.g.dreamhost.com (100-96-54-11.trex.outbound.svc.cluster.local [100.96.54.11]) (Authenticated sender: dreamhost) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 1F7513404F8; Sun, 8 Mar 2020 01:05:53 +0000 (UTC) X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|jurta@jurta.org Original-Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a44.g.dreamhost.com ([TEMPUNAVAIL]. [64.90.62.162]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384) by 0.0.0.0:2500 (trex/5.18.5); Sun, 08 Mar 2020 01:05:53 +0000 X-MC-Relay: Neutral X-MailChannels-SenderId: dreamhost|x-authsender|jurta@jurta.org X-MailChannels-Auth-Id: dreamhost X-Relation-Society: 226690862b56b50a_1583629553395_1650006458 X-MC-Loop-Signature: 1583629553395:2663817325 X-MC-Ingress-Time: 1583629553395 Original-Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a44.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a44.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D181980101; Sat, 7 Mar 2020 17:05:47 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=linkov.net; h=from:to:cc :subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version :content-type; s=linkov.net; bh=yFi35AkfS3VDPytJTYjqnSXT4kg=; b= 1cmjdcXXnH4mLoWqAykzc57IF8xU5/1MQdxfKUiHK6cEZqayyrODW0/5/8JG2uL2 ZegDg44FdI5qyYNERMrXN9A0WIs6UDJdYdDj3ICFjw33utcnX/hSLAjDfwFr/X9D s9EK/9Ia5+ADzbFv8zkdFvtmNxwu4bXAkb/meoYPGo4= Original-Received: from mail.jurta.org (m91-129-103-27.cust.tele2.ee [91.129.103.27]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jurta@jurta.org) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a44.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 92EFD800FF; Sat, 7 Mar 2020 17:05:45 -0800 (PST) X-DH-BACKEND: pdx1-sub0-mail-a44 In-Reply-To: (Dmitry Gutov's message of "Fri, 6 Mar 2020 17:24:58 +0200") X-VR-OUT-STATUS: OK X-VR-OUT-SCORE: -100 X-VR-OUT-SPAMCAUSE: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedugedrudduhedgfedtucetufdoteggodetrfdotffvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuggftfghnshhusghstghrihgsvgdpffftgfetoffjqffuvfenuceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucesvcftvggtihhpihgvnhhtshculddquddttddmnecujfgurhephffvufhofhffjgfkfgggtgesthdtredttdertdenucfhrhhomheplfhurhhiucfnihhnkhhovhcuoehjuhhriheslhhinhhkohhvrdhnvghtqeenucfkphepledurdduvdelrddutdefrddvjeenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedunecurfgrrhgrmhepmhhouggvpehsmhhtphdphhgvlhhopehmrghilhdrjhhurhhtrgdrohhrghdpihhnvghtpeeluddruddvledruddtfedrvdejpdhrvghtuhhrnhdqphgrthhhpefluhhrihcunfhinhhkohhvuceojhhurhhisehlihhnkhhovhdrnhgvtheqpdhmrghilhhfrhhomhepjhhurhhisehlihhnkhhovhdrnhgvthdpnhhrtghpthhtohepughguhhtohhvseihrghnuggvgidrrhhu X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 23.83.209.24 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:245328 Archived-At: >> rgrep/vc-git-grep provides good UI. > > No, it doesn't. It's the bare-bone-est UI possible, and it wastes a lot of > horizontal space. It doesn't provide a means to search-and-replace. And > it's not fit for programmatic construction, so Xref can't use it. If you don't like the grep output format, you can replace 'grep-filter' with your own process filter that would transform it to any other format. > So we can't standardize on it, no matter how much you are used to it. > It is one of "quality of life" things I have spent quite some effort on > improving, and to be frank I don't appreciate you handwaving all that > away by simply saying "non-standard". We already had 2 different formats: grep and occur, and now came a new 3rd format: xref. I think any attempt to standardize on the output format should be welcome. Of course, a general UI should be customizable enough to provide look and feel of any of the current formats. > None of the "standard" UIs you mentioned provide the functionality we > need. Grep is async, but cumbersome and has no provision of doing > anything with the matches: Wgrep is not in Emacs, not even in GNU ELPA, and > there's no quick "replace matching string with xxx" feature in it > anyway. Occur only works with buffers, it's not async either, and the > overhead of visiting who knows how many buffers is basically unlimited > (Grep is way faster at finding matches than Emacs at visiting files). > It's objectively *worse* for the purpose at hand, which will be especially > evident in bigger projects. Why not take the best parts from these contenders? Take async part of finding matches from grep and transform its output to any format you like.