From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Juri Linkov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Recentish C-s M-y change Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2020 11:34:23 +0200 Organization: LINKOV.NET Message-ID: <874kk5lzew.fsf@mail.linkov.net> References: <87r1na4tyu.fsf@gnus.org> <87tus6tj7s.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87a6txigm1.fsf@gnus.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="31275"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Dec 29 10:48:29 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kuBcC-0007zN-V0 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 29 Dec 2020 10:48:28 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:45462 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kuBcC-0008QS-00 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 29 Dec 2020 04:48:28 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:54262) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kuBal-0007mG-4S for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 29 Dec 2020 04:46:59 -0500 Original-Received: from relay5-d.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.183.197]:35605) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kuBai-0001aV-O5 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 29 Dec 2020 04:46:58 -0500 X-Originating-IP: 91.129.99.98 Original-Received: from mail.gandi.net (m91-129-99-98.cust.tele2.ee [91.129.99.98]) (Authenticated sender: juri@linkov.net) by relay5-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 29F901C0002; Tue, 29 Dec 2020 09:46:50 +0000 (UTC) In-Reply-To: <87a6txigm1.fsf@gnus.org> (Lars Ingebrigtsen's message of "Tue, 29 Dec 2020 01:46:30 +0100") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=217.70.183.197; envelope-from=juri@linkov.net; helo=relay5-d.mail.gandi.net X-Spam_score_int: -24 X-Spam_score: -2.5 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.5 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, GAPPY_SUBJECT=0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:262061 Archived-At: >> This has been discussed many times, and the most promising solution is >> to add a single variable that will define whether the user prohibits >> changing the definitions of traditional keys. > > I don't think that's a feasible solution -- some changed keybindings are > fine (because nobody are using them) and some are annoying. The only > way to find out which is which is to try and see whether somebody says > "eep". > > And it seems like we've gotten three "eep"s on this one, so I think it's > time to admit that this one didn't work out, and restore the old > keybinding. (And move the new functionality to some new key binding.) To tell the truth, after making this change I noticed that I have the same habit of using 'C-s M-y' to get the last kill ring entry. But I quickly relearned it because objectively 'C-s C-y' is a better keybinding to do the same - you don't need to press a different key modifier. Such changes of keybindings are not something new: in 2011 we changed 'C-s M-y' from 'isearch-yank-kill' to 'isearch-yank-pop', and also in 2011 changed 'C-s C-y' from 'isearch-yank-line' to 'isearch-yank-kill' that was a more fundamental change. Of course, if after trying 'C-s C-y', you'd still prefer the old 'C-s M-y', we could revert this change, but this would be a step backwards.