From: Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@posteo.net>
To: "Juan Manuel Macías" <maciaschain@posteo.net>
Cc: Daniel Fleischer <danflscr@gmail.com>,
Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com>,
emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Line breaks and brackets in LaTeX export
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2022 11:47:38 +0000 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <874jw2r7s5.fsf@localhost> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <8735bmelgu.fsf@posteo.net>
Juan Manuel Macías <maciaschain@posteo.net> writes:
> Ihor Radchenko writes:
>
>> I see no issue with defcustom in general, but can you explain what
>> practical problems it is going to solve? I am not talking about
>> aesthetics of the exported LaTeX.
>
> In my opinion it is not so much a question of aesthetics as of (let's
> say) a certain conformity with what a LaTeX document should be. I think,
> for example, in the case of a user who must submit his/her work in LaTeX
> format to a publication, following the rules of that publication. It is
> one thing for a LaTeX document to compile without error and quite
> another for a LaTeX document to be or not to be formed according to good
> practice. Would there be a problem sharing LaTeX documents with
> unnecessary commands like \empty after all occurrences of \\?
I haven't seen any publication rule that prevents using valid LaTeX
commands like this. Do you have concrete examples? If not, one could
argue that any auto-generated output could break some imaginary rule.
I am also wondering how LaTeX documents generated from LyX or TeXmacs
look like. Are they not using some obvious machine-generated constructs?
> Anyway. As for the compilation, it is highly unlikely that \empty will
> cause any unexpected error. But LaTeX and its over 6000 packages is
> unpredictable. It also seemed unlikely that \relax would cause any
> problems, and catching up on the last discussion, it had to be replaced
> by \empty because it returned an error just before \hline. \relax is one
> of the recommended solutions from LaTeX, because it tells LaTeX that the
> previous macro has finished expanding, but it is recommended keeping in
> mind that the user will apply it only when needed, not everywhere. And
> before \hline it doesn't make sense because there will never be an
> '\\[...]' error. So, in the current situation, we can ask ourselves: is
> \empty everywhere safe? Everything points to yes. Can we be 100% sure?
> ...?
My answer is: "\\" is 100% not universally safe. Simply because we have
that bug report with [ ... ] items in tables.
So, anything with no concrete counter-example is better as long as we
are reasonably sure that we are not breaking LaTeX conventions.
> The only thing I can think of, for a non-selective solution like the
> current one, is the following: if \\ has an optional argument that must
> be a length, then let's give it, but with a value of zero: \\[0pt], which
> is equivalent to putting the value by default (zero) explicitly.
This has been proposed and then rejected by Max in
https://list.orgmode.org/orgmode/ti5tdb$rd2$1@ciao.gmane.io/ and he
concluded that some side effects are present when using \\[0pt]:
Max> \\[0pt]
Max>
Max> causes insertion of some code for negative vertical skip (of zero height
Max> this case). It should not be really harmful, but I would avoid this hack.
> What I've done in this code is redefine \\ so that if the next character
> is a [ or a * it doesn't do anything. To use the macro with the old
> behavior, you would have to use the new macros \oldbreak and \oldbreakt
> (this one for tables):
>
> @@latex:\oldbreak@@
> @@latex:[1em]@@
It means that LaTeX packages that redefine \\ may be affected. I'd
prefer to avoid such side effects.
--
Ihor Radchenko // yantar92,
Org mode contributor,
Learn more about Org mode at <https://orgmode.org/>.
Support Org development at <https://liberapay.com/org-mode>,
or support my work at <https://liberapay.com/yantar92>
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2022-10-17 11:51 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 54+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2022-10-15 21:35 [bug] `org-latex-line-break-safe' breaks the export of verse blocks to LaTeX Juan Manuel Macías
2022-10-16 3:24 ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-10-16 12:08 ` Juan Manuel Macías
2022-10-16 15:04 ` Max Nikulin
2022-10-16 16:33 ` Verse block and separations (was: [bug] `org-latex-line-break-safe' breaks the export of verse blocks to LaTeX) Juan Manuel Macías
2022-10-17 8:54 ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-10-18 9:39 ` Verse block and separations Juan Manuel Macías
2022-10-17 14:48 ` Verse block and separations (was: [bug] `org-latex-line-break-safe' breaks the export of verse blocks to LaTeX) Max Nikulin
2022-10-19 11:08 ` Max Nikulin
2022-10-19 11:24 ` Verse block and separations Juan Manuel Macías
2022-10-16 17:14 ` Line breaks and brackets in LaTeX export (was: [bug] `org-latex-line-break-safe' breaks the export of verse blocks to LaTeX) Juan Manuel Macías
2022-10-17 9:04 ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-10-17 11:30 ` Line breaks and brackets in LaTeX export Juan Manuel Macías
2022-10-17 11:47 ` Ihor Radchenko [this message]
2022-10-17 12:27 ` Juan Manuel Macías
2022-10-17 15:01 ` Juan Manuel Macías
2022-10-17 16:46 ` Max Nikulin
2022-10-17 18:04 ` Juan Manuel Macías
2022-10-18 4:41 ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-10-18 14:23 ` Juan Manuel Macías
2022-10-19 3:57 ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-10-19 5:11 ` Max Nikulin
2022-10-19 11:16 ` Juan Manuel Macías
2022-10-19 12:30 ` Juan Manuel Macías
2022-10-19 17:07 ` Max Nikulin
2022-10-20 16:55 ` Juan Manuel Macías
2022-10-21 3:34 ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-10-21 16:38 ` Max Nikulin
2022-10-21 19:32 ` Juan Manuel Macías
[not found] ` <ac290c60-3b54-5521-eb16-82e6611dc6e2@gmail.com>
2022-10-20 17:07 ` Juan Manuel Macías
2022-10-29 2:36 ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-11-13 17:01 ` Max Nikulin
2022-10-18 4:39 ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-10-19 17:12 ` Max Nikulin
2022-10-20 5:07 ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-10-20 17:15 ` Max Nikulin
2022-10-21 3:41 ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-10-21 16:32 ` Max Nikulin
2022-10-22 5:15 ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-10-22 12:26 ` Juan Manuel Macías
2022-10-22 15:55 ` Max Nikulin
2022-11-01 1:51 ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-11-01 16:07 ` Max Nikulin
2022-11-02 6:44 ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-11-02 6:46 ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-11-02 15:27 ` Max Nikulin
2022-11-03 6:15 ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-11-03 15:00 ` Juan Manuel Macías
2022-11-03 15:33 ` Max Nikulin
2022-11-03 15:48 ` Juan Manuel Macías
2022-11-04 4:23 ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-11-04 5:40 ` Max Nikulin
2022-11-05 5:30 ` Ihor Radchenko
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2022-11-01 16:55 Juan Manuel Macías
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