basic navigation

basic navigation

[Samuel Wales]

***** basic navigation and killing
i am wondering if there are packages that can do this kind
of thing better.

this applies to any editing.  here is an example.  suppose i
am on an org-mode heading, with point at ^.

never mind the actual text.  my goal is to transform it to
this.

   *** ^gather and do physical

so i do the first thing that comes to mind: c-backspace
which runs backward-kill-word in my emacs 27.1.

there are of course many other things i can do, instead,
such as go to bol, use delete-char, etc., but i want to
illustrate basic word killing with this example.  what
occurs is this, successively.

   *** --- /various to do/ and to ^gather and do physical
   *** --- /various to do/ and ^gather and do physical
   *** --- /various to do/ ^gather and do physical
   *** --- /various to ^gather and do physical

i don't particularly mind the command's ignorance of org
syntax here.

   *** --- /various ^gather and do physical
   *** --- /^gather and do physical

and then once more to get rid of the --- syntax, which is a
bit of an emacs editing disaster.  what i wanted was to have
it produce what i set out to do.  maybe naive, but i wonder
if there might be different killing/nav paradigms.

i've been vexed by this since the 1980s with only sporadic
attempts to see if i can improve on it.  time to rely on
others for some ideas and possible existing packages.
please be gentle with me.  am cognitively impaired.

-- 
The Kafka Pandemic

A blog about science, health, human rights, and misopathy:
https://thekafkapandemic.blogspot.com

Re: basic navigation

[Platon Pronko]

On 2023-07-05 07:55, Samuel Wales wrote:
> ***** basic navigation and killing
> i am wondering if there are packages that can do this kind
> of thing better.
> 
> this applies to any editing.  here is an example.  suppose i
> am on an org-mode heading, with point at ^.
> 
> never mind the actual text.  my goal is to transform it to
> this.
> 
>     *** ^gather and do physical
> 
> so i do the first thing that comes to mind: c-backspace
> which runs backward-kill-word in my emacs 27.1.
> 
> there are of course many other things i can do, instead,
> such as go to bol, use delete-char, etc., but i want to
> illustrate basic word killing with this example.  what
> occurs is this, successively.
> 
>     *** --- /various to do/ and to ^gather and do physical
>     *** --- /various to do/ and ^gather and do physical
>     *** --- /various to do/ ^gather and do physical
>     *** --- /various to ^gather and do physical
> 
> i don't particularly mind the command's ignorance of org
> syntax here.
> 
>     *** --- /various ^gather and do physical
>     *** --- /^gather and do physical
> 
> and then once more to get rid of the --- syntax, which is a
> bit of an emacs editing disaster.  what i wanted was to have
> it produce what i set out to do.  maybe naive, but i wonder
> if there might be different killing/nav paradigms.
> 
> i've been vexed by this since the 1980s with only sporadic
> attempts to see if i can improve on it.  time to rely on
> others for some ideas and possible existing packages.
> please be gentle with me.  am cognitively impaired.
> 

In this particular situation I'd do it like this: C-space, C-a, 4x C-f, C-w (set mark, move to beginning of the line, move 4 characters forward, delete selection).
Or alternatively C-space, C-a, M-4 C-f, C-w (same thing but automate repetitive C-f).

Actually, you can use (setq org-special-ctrl-a/e t), then you can drop 4x C-f because C-a will take you to beginning of the heading automatically.

If you need to do this particular thing often you can make a macro out of it, or a small interactive function.

By the way, there's also C-0 C-k (kill to the beginning of the line), but that will also remove the heading asterisks, which is probably not intended.

-- 
Best regards,
Platon Pronko
PGP 2A62D77A7A2CB94E

Re: basic navigation

[Samuel Wales]

there are a few issues here actually.  first is that non-words get
gobbled up along with words.  this is too much for my taste.  i'd be
ok with each chunk of non-word syntax being kind of like a word, for
example.

the other thing i did not illustrate.  going left means going to bow.
but going right means going to, not eow, but the space.  similar with
paragraphs and so on.

suppose i am at bow.

  this is ^a word.

and i want to kill-word that.  i end up with 2 spaces.  so sometimes i
do gyrations to kill the right thing.  it's too much for me.

the adage that emacs is a superb os but it lacks a decent editor is,
for me, almost true, with these little [intentional, but not quite
working well for me] glitches.  maybe a package?

On 7/4/23, Samuel Wales <samologist@gmail.com> wrote:
> ***** basic navigation and killing
> i am wondering if there are packages that can do this kind
> of thing better.
>
> this applies to any editing.  here is an example.  suppose i
> am on an org-mode heading, with point at ^.
>
> never mind the actual text.  my goal is to transform it to
> this.
>
>    *** ^gather and do physical
>
> so i do the first thing that comes to mind: c-backspace
> which runs backward-kill-word in my emacs 27.1.
>
> there are of course many other things i can do, instead,
> such as go to bol, use delete-char, etc., but i want to
> illustrate basic word killing with this example.  what
> occurs is this, successively.
>
>    *** --- /various to do/ and to ^gather and do physical
>    *** --- /various to do/ and ^gather and do physical
>    *** --- /various to do/ ^gather and do physical
>    *** --- /various to ^gather and do physical
>
> i don't particularly mind the command's ignorance of org
> syntax here.
>
>    *** --- /various ^gather and do physical
>    *** --- /^gather and do physical
>
> and then once more to get rid of the --- syntax, which is a
> bit of an emacs editing disaster.  what i wanted was to have
> it produce what i set out to do.  maybe naive, but i wonder
> if there might be different killing/nav paradigms.
>
> i've been vexed by this since the 1980s with only sporadic
> attempts to see if i can improve on it.  time to rely on
> others for some ideas and possible existing packages.
> please be gentle with me.  am cognitively impaired.
>
> --
> The Kafka Pandemic
>
> A blog about science, health, human rights, and misopathy:
> https://thekafkapandemic.blogspot.com
>


-- 
The Kafka Pandemic

A blog about science, health, human rights, and misopathy:
https://thekafkapandemic.blogspot.com

Re: basic navigation

[Samuel Wales]

true, true, but i am really focusing on actually changing fundamental
navigation like backward-kill-word and similar commands to match
intuition more frequently, rather than find a different thing to do,
or specialize to a mode.

i want to be able to be in any editing mode and just use word or
paragraph or whatever commands with better results.

if what i want is nonsensical or impossible, so be it.  but i think
maybe, idk, if point always went to beginning of thing, or non-word
syntax were treated as word-like so that the / and then the / and then
the --- would be killed, it might work?  idk.

spaces might be an issue.  idk if there is a solution that makes them
less of an issue.  i am askiung for packages.

On 7/4/23, Platon Pronko <platon7pronko@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 2023-07-05 07:55, Samuel Wales wrote:
>> ***** basic navigation and killing
>> i am wondering if there are packages that can do this kind
>> of thing better.
>>
>> this applies to any editing.  here is an example.  suppose i
>> am on an org-mode heading, with point at ^.
>>
>> never mind the actual text.  my goal is to transform it to
>> this.
>>
>>     *** ^gather and do physical
>>
>> so i do the first thing that comes to mind: c-backspace
>> which runs backward-kill-word in my emacs 27.1.
>>
>> there are of course many other things i can do, instead,
>> such as go to bol, use delete-char, etc., but i want to
>> illustrate basic word killing with this example.  what
>> occurs is this, successively.
>>
>>     *** --- /various to do/ and to ^gather and do physical
>>     *** --- /various to do/ and ^gather and do physical
>>     *** --- /various to do/ ^gather and do physical
>>     *** --- /various to ^gather and do physical
>>
>> i don't particularly mind the command's ignorance of org
>> syntax here.
>>
>>     *** --- /various ^gather and do physical
>>     *** --- /^gather and do physical
>>
>> and then once more to get rid of the --- syntax, which is a
>> bit of an emacs editing disaster.  what i wanted was to have
>> it produce what i set out to do.  maybe naive, but i wonder
>> if there might be different killing/nav paradigms.
>>
>> i've been vexed by this since the 1980s with only sporadic
>> attempts to see if i can improve on it.  time to rely on
>> others for some ideas and possible existing packages.
>> please be gentle with me.  am cognitively impaired.
>>
>
> In this particular situation I'd do it like this: C-space, C-a, 4x C-f, C-w
> (set mark, move to beginning of the line, move 4 characters forward, delete
> selection).
> Or alternatively C-space, C-a, M-4 C-f, C-w (same thing but automate
> repetitive C-f).
>
> Actually, you can use (setq org-special-ctrl-a/e t), then you can drop 4x
> C-f because C-a will take you to beginning of the heading automatically.
>
> If you need to do this particular thing often you can make a macro out of
> it, or a small interactive function.
>
> By the way, there's also C-0 C-k (kill to the beginning of the line), but
> that will also remove the heading asterisks, which is probably not
> intended.
>
> --
> Best regards,
> Platon Pronko
> PGP 2A62D77A7A2CB94E
>
>


-- 
The Kafka Pandemic

A blog about science, health, human rights, and misopathy:
https://thekafkapandemic.blogspot.com

Re: basic navigation

[Platon Pronko]

On 2023-07-05 08:24, Samuel Wales wrote:
> true, true, but i am really focusing on actually changing fundamental
> navigation like backward-kill-word and similar commands to match
> intuition more frequently, rather than find a different thing to do,
> or specialize to a mode.

forward-word docs mention that you can tweak how word boundaries are determined:

> The word boundaries are normally determined by the buffer's syntax
> table and character script (according to `char-script-table'), but
> `find-word-boundary-function-table', such as set up by `subword-mode',
> can change that.  If a Lisp program needs to move by words determined
> strictly by the syntax table, it should use `forward-word-strictly'
> instead.  See Info node `(elisp) Word Motion' for details.
-- 
Best regards,
Platon Pronko
PGP 2A62D77A7A2CB94E

Re: basic navigation

[Samuel Wales]

for purposes of this discussion, please assume utf-8 and english if necessary.

i've found syntax tables to be usually wrong for what i want in most
modes, and i don't think i could fix them to be right.

On 7/4/23, Platon Pronko <platon7pronko@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 2023-07-05 08:24, Samuel Wales wrote:
>> true, true, but i am really focusing on actually changing fundamental
>> navigation like backward-kill-word and similar commands to match
>> intuition more frequently, rather than find a different thing to do,
>> or specialize to a mode.
>
> forward-word docs mention that you can tweak how word boundaries are
> determined:
>
>> The word boundaries are normally determined by the buffer's syntax
>> table and character script (according to `char-script-table'), but
>> `find-word-boundary-function-table', such as set up by `subword-mode',
>> can change that.  If a Lisp program needs to move by words determined
>> strictly by the syntax table, it should use `forward-word-strictly'
>> instead.  See Info node `(elisp) Word Motion' for details.
> --
> Best regards,
> Platon Pronko
> PGP 2A62D77A7A2CB94E
>
>


-- 
The Kafka Pandemic

A blog about science, health, human rights, and misopathy:
https://thekafkapandemic.blogspot.com

Re: basic navigation

[Emanuel Berg]

Samuel Wales wrote:

> this applies to any editing. here is an example.
> suppose i am on an org-mode heading, with point at ^.
>
> never mind the actual text.  my goal is to transform it to
> this.
>
>    *** ^gather and do physical

?

Transform what into what?

As for editing commands, don't think, just use them ...

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal

Re: basic navigation

[Samuel Wales]

i have forgotten other editors.  in emacs, in english, c-right will
take you to after a word, but asymmetrically c-left to first letter.
i wonder if all editors do that.

On 7/4/23, Emanuel Berg <incal@dataswamp.org> wrote:
> Samuel Wales wrote:
>
>> this applies to any editing. here is an example.
>> suppose i am on an org-mode heading, with point at ^.
>>
>> never mind the actual text.  my goal is to transform it to
>> this.
>>
>>    *** ^gather and do physical
>
> ?
>
> Transform what into what?
>
> As for editing commands, don't think, just use them ...
>
> --
> underground experts united
> https://dataswamp.org/~incal
>
>
>


-- 
The Kafka Pandemic

A blog about science, health, human rights, and misopathy:
https://thekafkapandemic.blogspot.com

Re: basic navigation

[Emanuel Berg]

Samuel Wales wrote:

> i have forgotten other editors. in emacs, in english,
> c-right will take you to after a word, but asymmetrically
> c-left to first letter.

Seemingly, if you look at the cursor, but type a letter and
you will see it is symmetric.

`backward-word', M-b, move point to immediately before the word
`forward-word'  M-f, same but immediately after.

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal