From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Danny Freeman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Clojure mode Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2023 21:59:40 -0400 Message-ID: <874jki4n37.fsf@dfreeman.email> References: <87il9kksqz.fsf@dfreeman.email> <87a5uw9ivs.fsf@posteo.net> <87ttt42gna.fsf@dfreeman.email> <87wmy080kn.fsf@posteo.net> <83v8djcydl.fsf@gnu.org> <87350ndquw.fsf@dfreeman.email> <83350ncbns.fsf@gnu.org> <87cyzrjbd8.fsf@dfreeman.email> <83zg2vav46.fsf@gnu.org> <87o7j99304.fsf@dfreeman.email> <87zg2hsyrd.fsf@dfreeman.email> <87h6ontwfv.fsf@posteo.net> <4874df51-9652-f9fd-0576-9dd6a4cba31a@gutov.dev> <3d5ef276-ce6b-9ff0-0c60-1da6b887b365@gutov.dev> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="20207"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org, manuel.uberti@inventati.org To: Dmitry Gutov Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Aug 29 04:09:26 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qaoAX-0004v0-1H for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 29 Aug 2023 04:09:25 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qao9p-0004n8-Ah; Mon, 28 Aug 2023 22:08:42 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qao9n-0004mt-If for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 28 Aug 2023 22:08:39 -0400 Original-Received: from out-245.mta1.migadu.com ([95.215.58.245]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qao9k-0007hX-TF for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 28 Aug 2023 22:08:39 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=dfreeman.email; s=key1; t=1693274913; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=DTbwMrBa2OtrCN/TOSQmRFfMnGO1hl/uMYtzwjrSLNo=; b=jM36TobxrQjXnuYG3iZdrQhpOqmXmk6cr1PBE2DEPNLf7vCK0LnmzSpK+uL97QMk3a/jNv 1tMRB2b0V0YQDPreSBvjgYMKMCunpl8mP92hr6KQg2HejX6TdmKdiIjevaeXKve4dz2nkG lHxh86WbeyNm9WtdT0BaOrwP4suPLpM= X-Report-Abuse: Please report any abuse attempt to abuse@migadu.com and include these headers. In-reply-to: X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_OUT Received-SPF: pass client-ip=95.215.58.245; envelope-from=danny@dfreeman.email; helo=out-245.mta1.migadu.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:309467 Archived-At: Dmitry Gutov writes: > On 29/08/2023 04:52, Richard Stallman wrote: >> > clojure-mode is an existing package with thousands (tens of thousands? >> > millions?) users and certain existing functionality. Other (also >> > third-party) packages rely on it for various functionality. It's not a >> > bare-bones major mode with basic functionality only. >> This underscores my point: clojure-mode is an important feature, so >> Emacs should provide it. It should be a full-fledged part of Emacs, >> documented in Emacs. To leave these jobs to nonrecommended add-ons, >> such as found in NonGNU-ELPA, is not doing a good job. >> We hope that Emacs users who write extensions will appreciate Emacs >> enough to contribute them to Emacs. Usually they do. When they >> don't, that's unfortunate -- but we can make up for it. It isn't an >> lot of work compared with all the work we do on Emacs in a year. > > It's an important feature for an existing ecosystem of packages whose authors chose to develop and > distribute them the way they did. > > Hijacking the name, at the very least, would bring a lot of problems. This is the main source of my concern, summed up better than I am able to put things. If the concern is having a decent out of the box experience for reading and editing clojure source files, would enabling `lisp-mode` out of the box for clojure-mode files be a decent middle ground? That would provide decent font-locking and indentation, with a simple modification to the auto-mode-alist. I just tried it on a clojure project and it looks and behaves decently. If a user wants a more IDE like experience they could reach for CIDER from NonGNU Elpa. -- Danny Freeman