From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Helmut Eller Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Collecting markers with MPS Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2024 21:18:19 +0200 Message-ID: <874jbqin7o.fsf@gmail.com> References: <87cyqfjk6n.fsf@gmail.com> <86sezb2oj2.fsf@gnu.org> <874jbrjg04.fsf@gmail.com> <86o79z2h7y.fsf@gnu.org> <87wmomiz0x.fsf@gmail.com> <86bk5y3gf4.fsf@gnu.org> <87jzkmivel.fsf@gmail.com> <867cgm3exf.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="2944"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Cc: gerd.moellmann@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Apr 24 21:19:06 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1rzi94-0000bB-2v for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 24 Apr 2024 21:19:06 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rzi8S-0007l8-Ju; Wed, 24 Apr 2024 15:18:28 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rzi8Q-0007kv-Ny for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 24 Apr 2024 15:18:27 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-ed1-x52f.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::52f]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rzi8O-00012b-D3; Wed, 24 Apr 2024 15:18:26 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-ed1-x52f.google.com with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-572347c2ba8so159190a12.3; Wed, 24 Apr 2024 12:18:22 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1713986301; x=1714591101; darn=gnu.org; h=mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date:references:in-reply-to :subject:cc:to:from:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=fKAJzZBCRzCgQ/SNINCWeq2EcWl0QUiR+rI8UtklvXw=; b=Rt7chXjdEKQXqzYlujjP5YIhcTcgdaLrt6KKYU1eW3yi6IHPPC7ssHwYyMiDYkBU+F F5cm0S0PA+huTFHpJIbDKqyR1PJjS+OaehpYpNJGScP8ohyYiXDMNz5fH5SoIW6xfnLw l8OsdS6F6odfUpzeej44mZViupc15aEFI/wtitZqgr1Xq/7dYpN6Dk3xz/SCDuEBav3m vBcFHoZ9RV3nJCAbJhiIx9QS9KWYJnwqZp2ARegD+YrJLQ4I97WoR5AQ/1VBQ93u3cVO +9OvK+zoSZ3NYjFh7W7MZBVYsTRh81jLM68Uijkgdk4xHQAODdlG470yADFrR1DHthoZ WkGg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1713986301; x=1714591101; h=mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date:references:in-reply-to :subject:cc:to:from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=fKAJzZBCRzCgQ/SNINCWeq2EcWl0QUiR+rI8UtklvXw=; b=T0jWpbTqxoztSiY+Gq45gMxzSUXOWn4u12AVD8HuevJCQGrgBlFRJS0XdXl9v/N3sB r3VhoZzNS0Gb3AHIXe0htkXv8bbmvMuf4xtQ7zfK6jvAvlfGIHrZ7p7DxVuZRGQ6hV00 WbS5+df7A+q1F7A/1X30s9PalpXo6xblg6EIwizi/3lslZPmlvURENpHhQfHbS447ld1 RRpSFeA6SQfdaij2OqQ1jEuRJisT+dxsAuneJhJSI6NnaG1nX27yCVw7eAklDwvjFbBU XVLfL2kzy4SwHN9Cwm6WBILGJt9h/RQDdMUqjuVTplGpzW/gscbg2RhUZmSH+vh9jee0 naqg== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCUiQNuzTZhcHir1B37C6vmyjEKVttxIdoJoJ9y+DdVhtg0mMlpukKUBGK6Q/ks+jJBs8ArCO6et/mDsl4tcTEM3EVwN X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YzFj6u8acURsAAg00OE0d3LkirgmYdMzG/i31k3GS3YvlZfktTo WXgMCvaJMMUpBma95joAxGevO7Ac6paMqfILq4YO+o/Wp1jQSQD3716koA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IHTTb7bwsbeALbEVKnbdw1jMiJRIkVUknJOTPeqogaaPl24X8RLat/tgrDelXj2nDhKOA1olQ== X-Received: by 2002:a50:8e18:0:b0:56e:2294:e2e6 with SMTP id 24-20020a508e18000000b0056e2294e2e6mr2105449edw.26.1713986300556; Wed, 24 Apr 2024 12:18:20 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from caladan ([89.107.106.118]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id g1-20020aa7c841000000b0056e718795f8sm8174508edt.36.2024.04.24.12.18.20 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Wed, 24 Apr 2024 12:18:20 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <867cgm3exf.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Wed, 24 Apr 2024 19:26:20 +0300") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::52f; envelope-from=eller.helmut@gmail.com; helo=mail-ed1-x52f.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:318045 Archived-At: On Wed, Apr 24 2024, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> Yes, but only the programmers know which markers they no longer need. > > Sorry, I don't follow: how does the old GC detect dead markers? I don't know the details. You'd have to read the code. It's wizard level. > Why cannot a function we write do the same? Because we would probably have to scan the heap for all potentially live objects. > I don't believe programmers will know which markers are no longer > needed, primarily because most markers are completely unknown to > programmers, Emacs creates them for its own purposes and never exposes > them to Lisp. Not all of course. But those programmers who create markers like crazy probably know it. If they assume that markers are expensive then they could better keep track of them (or not create them in the first place). Helmut