From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Po Lu via "Emacs development discussions." Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Windows 9X without KernelEx Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2024 17:35:45 +0800 Message-ID: <874j9u7dla.fsf@yahoo.com> References: <875xub8sn8.fsf.ref@yahoo.com> <875xub8sn8.fsf@yahoo.com> <8634pfy289.fsf@gnu.org> <87sexe7sgm.fsf@yahoo.com> <87o7827r1t.fsf@yahoo.com> <86ed8ywuoz.fsf@gnu.org> <87frte7jry.fsf@yahoo.com> <86a5jmwt2r.fsf@gnu.org> Reply-To: Po Lu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="10433"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Cc: stefankangas@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Jun 15 11:36:21 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1sIPpc-0002Uo-UH for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 15 Jun 2024 11:36:21 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sIPpN-0001Tw-E7; Sat, 15 Jun 2024 05:36:05 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sIPpL-0001Sd-Ns for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 15 Jun 2024 05:36:03 -0400 Original-Received: from sonic308-56.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com ([66.163.187.31]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sIPpJ-0001MK-Q5 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 15 Jun 2024 05:36:03 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1718444159; bh=KF+fMw1kpC01E7oWYBhcT/BEAtLzSIEvZ1Lw8YCWomo=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From:Subject:Reply-To; b=WiizjlwXINORe8odrfKcS01LPItbbtsr9tH7hk6YGaEgUvK/9ZAcep6P4n0Esk4UllUiG7H0iQK/n3febObljLJuAkGxhVOzMqurwQ+qHZg5unquZ7s7OPNqArRC4vdDpnCDsXxPkZOsj4/ztIC9eTHVbKdnQCiAfS+pPr7M/lkxlY0Vp4yQFk5OWPhAEsV1lTSfqaNZXX2yUuwn5ByHYUQcDKltSZFS4XIs5/1NyZk85cCKHtSAL41sIyEwEbioxZ8JTfYKF2XPW6uNNhXvrO9zso3vp5FeTe19zgsKLQxq2yUYlpeikaVl4EpU/7PJo9sHo4554aDuNujLSg6tCw== X-SONIC-DKIM-SIGN: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1718444159; bh=5PhaAWwbPZR/WP3G7ZfpZteKTeetpLNyYd7d2CL3jm4=; h=X-Sonic-MF:From:To:Subject:Date:From:Subject; b=hf2qpQWrvl9/2raiJpDLBdn2PAmug4bPswfjn+jtJ+VSkY6Osu4gnwNfCBZtvU+xj4lhlgSg1L/bxiuYnYYpSjuj+udE5ahrvyTkWtFmniH3C4FipnCLTWTDVWupTmV4JTWg/cI66J+31XAkL5G1jm8fQ0HYm8aRkJYBe8fmMjr6Mr4vm5AAIi7UVyojqK6cFGc5jGbNxwwaCbIC8pdMvcF3kFPcZ8EGI7XpOMbjsbd9K6MuM6QnBC/cryRuRiCg5RZjO73abkkHAorWRXYzXuFbvFDa1NP9uqt8TS/RVnEowQpuk4rtHhQcmbbO8tk9HG0P0y2EWS+LCqSLziHBTw== X-YMail-OSG: CmdKd4QVM1nl6KPH8F6lvOLKuD3DiXH7NwywPuQ6VYcbZ5DwF1EAWwW3aaF32y8 IgaHMBTAozUqc.7CncVJS1lqN5Num00LbUWu_wyA3Ntnud4XHQTpDqL0zMYQ3ko3S7PhpVyPLi7A 4iIA7kjDMkF43fHXbSK3bN3n9kaGmKMrRfHKKWC8UsPC90eXm.3kyVFmW.ZRaAIcb9jiOErvi79H hN4VLKJGpYbBOQ9XkH7JikU8OQpZ019_CE5.K05Uyhu93BlEmncQ6GeyxReikQmvXgDBuo9j36nU bIqF.qrCpHVTwaKkriOp9V14HN0._fIINvqKMZRB0XUYC0KvPE1QTuQA5uqlmGZRI5F06IhmTas_ PdWyYMhgll_p1X1t0NkQXxC0ODXimt2bv_hR8ry18mkTBXbdYk_l_6bUsCbccFsCTD9ewjCwOXMm dLVl_tizZ4KBcJVkZZmm.lg1AcUwSxU7LpE7QDvvEu47DsG9V4by9dNrtnH.IQEGk2Ma9LWssB6d BrXduZwtdI5wRI5VyThuMyRAztC2XKE9xdnh5WSAUP3qYjxPP6D8OHOIoURaQrrxWd5hA9yjtpxM fcdvCIZPwSh8fEssOnFCA8GQQ0lVZtYPZovpdp7SrXriu_JmkeX6aeetov2kCY5cqvvOkYFNeKir 7GeUPvzPhN5c5CT20jGRwCGFQ_nXh8KeiypVhgwRAMvZAd2.dQRj_X7wawPMB7rUuSXTHA1O4CiI 3G3vEy.W9fddJncb6BPQhqlJTrS34mcQeYV6z.iX.JfitDGrx6O8ExeAAOVeLGLHtR.wME.7abQT oOiRl7OP0_nqZibcLvkC73342nnzoHvPpIAfuVHv4O X-Sonic-MF: X-Sonic-ID: a1af7dc0-c8cf-4fa6-97de-eb7216307e2e Original-Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic308.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Sat, 15 Jun 2024 09:35:59 +0000 Original-Received: by hermes--production-sg3-7b469d9f6-c8xkk (Yahoo Inc. Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 10a0d899dbf7662d10d8eb81100a9913; Sat, 15 Jun 2024 09:35:51 +0000 (UTC) In-Reply-To: <86a5jmwt2r.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sat, 15 Jun 2024 10:42:04 +0300") X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.22407 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo Received-SPF: pass client-ip=66.163.187.31; envelope-from=luangruo@yahoo.com; helo=sonic308-56.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com X-Spam_score_int: -7 X-Spam_score: -0.8 X-Spam_bar: / X-Spam_report: (-0.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, DKIM_INVALID=0.1, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:320124 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: > If you add usp10.dll (and unicows.dll) to Windows 98, does Emacs start > then? Or do any of the other missing APIs prevent it from starting? I cannot test with USP10.DLL at the moment, but that aside, as I said, all of the following prevent Emacs from starting on Windows 98: Shell_NotifyIconW ShellExecuteExW SHFileOperationW ReadDirectoryChangesW and none of them are being defined by USP10.DLL, which as I understand it is only concerned with multilingual text layout. > We should have discussed this before your writing the code, to prevent > the unnecessary efforts. I'm sorry for your wasted time, but I have > said many times before: this kind of issues should be discussed first. > I will keep saying that, in the hope that at some point this will > sink. I re-read the following twice and considerably moderated its tone, but it might continue to read as a flame to the sensitive, so, trigger warning. In nowise is it meant as a personal reflection on anyone in this thread, though if anyone who passes by recognizes himself in the same, he would do well to change his ways. Had I discussed this before writing the code, and if the same comment prompted the arbitrary decision to be made of discontinuing support for the system declared in the README, I would still be disappointed with the preliminary investigation, initiated on account of several _express_ words in a document bearing every mark of authority and affirming support for said system, having gone to waste on the back of an offhand comment by someone uninvolved with the systems in question (which investigation was decidedly not trivial: locating what appeared to be a trustworthy symbol list, a system file from a 30-year-old operating system against which to verify the list, and a host of other sundries from three decades past, all late at night); and if it is said that I ought to have asked this question before entering upon any sort of work in that direction, then there is only one inference to be made, that our READMEs and FAQs are not to be trusted, as their authors are liable to change their minds the moment their attention returns to facts they have previously written. The truth is that these are matters which affect myself quite strongly, because it is a recurring pattern in Free Software (and to a lesser degree, proprietary software) development that has emerged and gained a sorry amount of currency that when serious deliberations are raised on any subject touching on support for computer systems, sometimes 3 decades of age, but as easily 5 or 10 years old, or any number of any unit of time that meets with disapproval from certain quarters, along come professional commentators from the peanut gallery who derail the conversation in favor of simply repudiating past commitments that have been matched both by words and by deeds, without regard for the tremendous physical and mental investments that their fellow human beings have put into meeting them, or attempting to intelligently explore how best to fulfill them in future. The losers in this game are the users and the developers, of whom the one are compelled to choose between the purchase of new hardware and being denied features and bug fixes from new releases of such programs as they know and love, and the other are subjected to unremitting abuse, till they relent to the demands of the mob. Having been on the receiving side in both roles, I am naturally intensely motivated to guarantee that everything continues to function to the only impartial specification, existing, written, documentation, or otherwise I would have called it a day after restoring lock files to working order on that one machine. The latest episode being the Android port. Any reasonable man would expect supporting a broad selection of systems produced after 2010 to be a public service, yet I am called a criminal, and my character is questioned and assassinated by cowards secure behind the protection of a SourceForge handle. All for the cardinal sin of promoting the continued use of computers featuring less censorship, sabotage, or disobedience towards their owners, and where vulnerabilities in the OS enable computer owners to assert their dominion over their own property. And, though proceedings in this list has been remarkably civil by comparison with the above, yet their essence dangerously approaches that of the latter, which is deeply upsetting.