From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Mario Lang Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: A plea for dynamically loadable extension modules Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 16:40:36 +0200 Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Message-ID: <873cgohycb.fsf@lexx.delysid.org> References: <87wue0i51a.fsf@lexx.delysid.org> <871xw8i3tr.fsf@tapsellferrier.co.uk> <87k7a0i0yz.fsf@lexx.delysid.org> <3F27D535.9070702@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: main.gmane.org 1059576499 16360 80.91.224.249 (30 Jul 2003 14:48:19 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@main.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 14:48:19 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Nic , emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Wed Jul 30 16:48:17 2003 Return-path: Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 19hs8W-0003Ym-00 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 16:41:04 +0200 Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 19hsAV-00079S-00 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 16:43:07 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19hs8M-0004gD-Uo for emacs-devel@quimby.gnus.org; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 10:40:54 -0400 Original-Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.20) id 19hs8D-0004Nl-S2 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 10:40:45 -0400 Original-Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.20) id 19hs8B-0004J9-K9 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 10:40:44 -0400 Original-Received: from chello080109223066.lancity.graz.surfer.at ([80.109.223.66] helo=lexx.delysid.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19hs87-00048i-D0; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 10:40:39 -0400 Original-Received: from mlang by lexx.delysid.org with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 19hs84-0004vh-00; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 16:40:36 +0200 Original-To: Jason Rumney In-Reply-To: <3F27D535.9070702@gnu.org> (Jason Rumney's message of "Wed, 30 Jul 2003 15:24:53 +0100") User-Agent: Gnus/5.1002 (Gnus v5.10.2) Emacs/21.3 (gnu/linux) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list List-Id: Emacs development discussions. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:15740 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:15740 Jason Rumney writes: > Mario Lang wrote: >> I do not fully understand this. If the use of >> non-free code in Emacs is explicitly forbidden, what is the problem then? >> If someone would use a dynamic loader extention to integrate >> commercial code with Emacs, he would just violate the license. > > Allowing dynamic linking makes it easier for the end-user to violate > the license, perhaps unwittingly, while the distributer of the linked > module might technically escape from any wrongdoing since they are not > doing the linking. > > But I think the specific change that the objections were raised about > was a general dynamic linking mechanism that would allow Emacs to link > to any library. There is another type of dynamic linking, where > linked modules would need to conform to an Emacs-specific interface. I was not refering to a generic FFI, I was refering to the second case you mentioned, an extention which required linked modules to be specially written for Emacs. Quoting Dave's mail to g.e.sources from 10 Apr 2002 23:22:27 +0100: "This patch for Emacs 21.1 basically extends `load' to allow loading compiled C modules and provides a script to build them." It seems clear to me according to the attached REAMDE that this extention does not provide a generic FFI. So I think the point you raised above is not valid here. > Then only Emacs-specific modules could be linked to Emacs. It would then > be much easier to tell developers of non-Free modules that linked to > Emacs to make their code Free, since they could not claim that their > module was exempt from the GPL because it was designed to link with 'Y', > not with Emacs. Exactly. The patch from Dave satisfies the mentioned properties AFAICS. -- CYa, Mario | Debian Developer | Get my public key via finger mlang@db.debian.org | 1024D/7FC1A0854909BCCDBE6C102DDFFC022A6B113E44