Emacs bindings in other programs

Emacs bindings in other programs

[YSK]

I apologize in advance if this is deemed off-topic, but I will find
people in this newsgroup who share my interest: getting all other
programs in my Linux PC to work with Emacs keybindings (particularly
the navigation ones, C-e, C-a, C-n, C-p, C-k).

There is a wonderful Windows tool called XKeymacs that does this for
Windows apps, and I have been searching (in vain) for something like
that for Linux (or Xorg more generally).  Perhaps someone here will
have a xmodmap script to do this, or know some obscure tool/workaround
to make it possible. I am aware of the "gtk-key-theme-name = "Emacs""
workaround for GTK based apps, but programs where I do lots of editing
(like my Java mail client and OpenOffice) do not obey that file.

I'd appreciate any pointers.
Thanks!

Re: Emacs bindings in other programs

[Xah Lee]

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On Oct 26, 9:33 am, YSK <koyf...@gmail.com> wrote:
«getting all other programs in my Linux PC to work with Emacs
keybindings (particularly the navigation ones, C-e, C-a, C-n, C-p,
C-k).»

ouch, i don't think that's a good thing to do, once this subject is
thought about.

pls see:

· Why Emacs's Keyboard Shortcuts Are Painful
http://xahlee.org/emacs/emacs_kb_shortcuts_pain.html

it would be better, to design a ergonomic shortcut for cursor
navigation, then make all your other appl to be like that.

here's my emacs one:

· A Ergonomic Keyboard Shortcut Layout For Emacs
http://xahlee.org/emacs/ergonomic_emacs_keybinding.html

but on your question... if you are on mac os x, it by default supports
emacs's shortcuts for cursor movement.

And, on os x, you can change it system-wide to other shortcuts by
using the
DefaultKeyBinding.dict

see for example:
http://xahlee.org/emacs/DefaultKeyBinding.dict

On linux, am not sure xmodmap would do it. But here's my old xmodmap
for doing dvorak on linux, which i haven't used since 2002.

· Dvorak keymap for xmodmap
http://xahlee.org/PageTwo_dir/Personal_dir/dvorakKeymap.txt

and on Windows i know at least QuickKeys ...

  Xah
  xah@xahlee.org
  http://xahlee.org/

--------------------------

On Oct 26, 9:33 am, YSK <koyf...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I apologize in advance if this is deemed off-topic, but I will find
> people in this newsgroup who share my interest: getting all other
> programs in my Linux PC to work with Emacs keybindings (particularly
> the navigation ones, C-e, C-a, C-n, C-p, C-k).
>
> There is a wonderful Windows tool called XKeymacs that does this for
> Windows apps, and I have been searching (in vain) for something like
> that for Linux (or Xorg more generally).  Perhaps someone here will
> have a xmodmap script to do this, or know some obscure tool/workaround
> to make it possible. I am aware of the "gtk-key-theme-name = "Emacs""
> workaround for GTK based apps, but programs where I do lots of editing
> (like my Java mail client and OpenOffice) do not obey that file.
>
> I'd appreciate any pointers.
> Thanks!

Re: Emacs bindings in other programs

[YSK]

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On Oct 26, 8:29 pm, Xah Lee <x...@xahlee.org> wrote:
> On Oct 26, 9:33 am, YSK <koyf...@gmail.com> wrote:
> «getting all other programs in my Linux PC to work with Emacs
> keybindings (particularly the navigation ones, C-e, C-a, C-n, C-p,
> C-k).»
>
> ouch, i don't think that's a good thing to do, once this subject is
> thought about.
>
> pls see:
>
> · Why Emacs's Keyboard Shortcuts Are Painfulhttp://xahlee.org/emacs/emacs_kb_shortcuts_pain.html

I don't deny emacs pinky is real, but for now it feels less
comfortable for me to hit the cursor keys with my right pinky than the
Ctrl key with my left.  I have tried rebinding my Ctrl to Caps Lock,
but it hasn't stuck. For one thing, I use the C-M-S combination a lot,
and it's harder with the Ctrl key in the Caps Lock position.


>
> it would be better, to design a ergonomic shortcut for cursor
> navigation, then make all your other appl to be like that.

Maybe that would be better, but how would I get all programs to
support those bindings, which is what I ultimately want?

Right now, <soapbox> I know one set of controls very well, and I like
those controls. Emacs is the only tool I know of with extermely
useful, powerful commands that I think should be part of every editing
environment. kill-line, isearch, reverse-isearch, regexp-search, M-\,
C-u C-space.. on and on. Franky, it seems strange to me that these
kinds of features aren't available by default in mature editing-heavy
packages like MS Word or OpenOffice. At least on Windows, through the
good graces of VBacs and XKeymacs, I have some of the Emacs
functionality in Word, Notes, PowerPoint, etc.  </soapbox>

>
> here's my emacs one:
>
> · A Ergonomic Keyboard Shortcut Layout For Emacshttp://xahlee.org/emacs/ergonomic_emacs_keybinding.html
>
> but on your question... if you are on mac os x, it by default supports
> emacs's shortcuts for cursor movement.
>
> And, on os x, you can change it system-wide to other shortcuts by
> using the
> DefaultKeyBinding.dict
>
> see for example:http://xahlee.org/emacs/DefaultKeyBinding.dict
>
> On linux, am not sure xmodmap would do it. But here's my old xmodmap
> for doing dvorak on linux, which i haven't used since 2002.
>
> · Dvorak keymap for xmodmaphttp://xahlee.org/PageTwo_dir/Personal_dir/dvorakKeymap.txt
>
> and on Windows i know at least QuickKeys ...

XKeymacs does a great job of enabling Emacs controls in Windows
generally.

>
>   Xah
>   x...@xahlee.org
>  http://xahlee.org/
>
> --------------------------
>
> On Oct 26, 9:33 am, YSK <koyf...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I apologize in advance if this is deemed off-topic, but I will find
> > people in this newsgroup who share my interest: getting all other
> > programs in my Linux PC to work with Emacs keybindings (particularly
> > the navigation ones, C-e, C-a, C-n, C-p, C-k).
>
> > There is a wonderful Windows tool called XKeymacs that does this for
> > Windows apps, and I have been searching (in vain) for something like
> > that for Linux (or Xorg more generally).  Perhaps someone here will
> > have a xmodmap script to do this, or know some obscure tool/workaround
> > to make it possible. I am aware of the "gtk-key-theme-name = "Emacs""
> > workaround for GTK based apps, but programs where I do lots of editing
> > (like my Java mail client and OpenOffice) do not obey that file.
>
> > I'd appreciate any pointers.
> > Thanks!

Re: Emacs bindings in other programs

[John]

On Oct 26, 12:33 pm, YSK <koyf...@gmail.com> wrote:
> [...] getting all other
> programs in my Linux PC to work with Emacs keybindings (particularly
> the navigation ones, C-e, C-a, C-n, C-p, C-k).

I know what you mean. Frequently I go from Emacs to, say, Firefox, and
accidentally hit Emacs keys causing FF to try and print pages, open
new windows, select all, and so on. Actually, for FF, there's an
extension called Firemacs that might be interesting.

Anyhow, I think this is part of the reason there's so many tools
written for use within Emacs. For example, you mention your Java-based
mail client: you might have a look at Emacs' built-in email client
"rmail" as a possible replacement which would allow you to use the
familiar Emacs key combos. I'm guessing the EmacsWiki has info on many
such replacement elisp apps.

Regarding OO.o, the only thing I can suggest is that you look into
alternatives that allow you to edit raw text. For example, you could
try Plain TeX or LaTeX. Or maybe use some generic markup format for
your docs, like reStructuredText ("reST"), asciidoc, Perl 6 Pod,
Markdown, etc. With reST, there's a rst2odt.py tool to convert to OO.o
document format (though it's still fairly new).

---John

Re: Emacs bindings in other programs

[Sebastian Tennant]

Quoth John <jmg3000@gmail.com>:
> On Oct 26, 12:33 pm, YSK <koyf...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> [...] getting all other
>> programs in my Linux PC to work with Emacs keybindings (particularly
>> the navigation ones, C-e, C-a, C-n, C-p, C-k).
>
> I know what you mean. Frequently I go from Emacs to, say, Firefox, and
> accidentally hit Emacs keys causing FF to try and print pages, open
> new windows, select all, and so on. 

This happens to me all the time too.

> Actually, for FF, there's an extension called Firemacs that might be
> interesting.

Interesting.

Windows users may find Xkeymacs interesting:

 http://www.cam.hi-ho.ne.jp/oishi/indexen.html

Discussed here:

 http://osdir.com/ml/emacs.windows/2004-01/msg00022.html

HTH.

Sebastian

Re: Emacs bindings in other programs

[Martin Rubey]

John <jmg3000@gmail.com> writes:

> I know what you mean. Frequently I go from Emacs to, say, Firefox, and
> accidentally hit Emacs keys causing FF to try and print pages, open
> new windows, select all, and so on. 

What happens to me all the time is that I hit C-x b and expect emacs switch to
the dvi or pdf viewer, or konqueror or whatever, or, if in such an application,
switch back to emacs...

I'd really love to see my x-applications "live" in an emacs buffer, but I was
told that that's difficult.  On the other hand, I saw such an item on the emacs
ToDo list, so maybe there is hope.

Martin

Re: Emacs bindings in other programs

[Joel J. Adamson]

John <jmg3000@gmail.com> writes:

> On Oct 26, 12:33 pm, YSK <koyf...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> [...] getting all other
>> programs in my Linux PC to work with Emacs keybindings (particularly
>> the navigation ones, C-e, C-a, C-n, C-p, C-k).
>
> I know what you mean. Frequently I go from Emacs to, say, Firefox, and
> accidentally hit Emacs keys causing FF to try and print pages, open
> new windows, select all, and so on. Actually, for FF, there's an
> extension called Firemacs that might be interesting.

I'm going to try that.  For right now I use the Emacs GTK key theme:

My .gtkrc-2.0:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
gtk-font-name = "Dejavu Serif 10"
gtk-theme-name = "MurrinaNeoGraphite"
gtk-icon-theme-name = "Tango"
gtk-key-theme-name = "Emacs"
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

This works to get some key bindings, like C-k and sometimes C-h will
delete.  However, it will not accept prefixes, so C-x k will not
work.  Konqueror has a customizable keybinding menu, but it also does
not accept prefixes.

Joel
-- 
Joel J. Adamson
Biostatistician
Pediatric Psychopharmacology Research Unit
Massachusetts General Hospital
Boston, MA  02114
(617) 643-1432
(303) 880-3109

Re: Emacs bindings in other programs

[Joel J. Adamson]

John <jmg3000@gmail.com> writes:

> On Oct 26, 12:33 pm, YSK <koyf...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> [...] getting all other
>> programs in my Linux PC to work with Emacs keybindings (particularly
>> the navigation ones, C-e, C-a, C-n, C-p, C-k).
>
> I know what you mean. Frequently I go from Emacs to, say, Firefox, and
> accidentally hit Emacs keys causing FF to try and print pages, open
> new windows, select all, and so on. Actually, for FF, there's an
> extension called Firemacs that might be interesting.

Yo, I just tried Firemacs, and C-x k does kill a tab.  Awesome!!!

Joel

-- 
Joel J. Adamson
Biostatistician
Pediatric Psychopharmacology Research Unit
Massachusetts General Hospital
Boston, MA  02114
(617) 643-1432
(303) 880-3109

Re: Emacs bindings in other programs

[Stefan Monnier]

> What happens to me all the time is that I hit C-x b and expect emacs
> switch to the dvi or pdf viewer, or konqueror or whatever, or, if in such
> an application, switch back to emacs...

With doc-view.el you can view your dvi/pdf files directly inside Emacs.


        Stefan

Re: Emacs bindings in other programs

[Martin Rubey]

Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> writes:

> > What happens to me all the time is that I hit C-x b and expect emacs
> > switch to the dvi or pdf viewer, or konqueror or whatever, or, if in such
> > an application, switch back to emacs...
> 
> With doc-view.el you can view your dvi/pdf files directly inside Emacs.

Yes, but I'm really after something else.  There will always be applications
that are "outside" of emacs but nevertheless great to use.

Apart from that, I'd be surprised if docview were as fast as a traditional
viewer for larger documents.  (Especially when I'm editing them, so caching
won't help)

Martin

Re: Emacs bindings in other programs

[YSK]

On Oct 31, 10:14 am, jadam...@partners.org (Joel J. Adamson) wrote:
> John <jmg3...@gmail.com> writes:
> > On Oct 26, 12:33 pm, YSK <koyf...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> [...] getting all other
> >> programs in my Linux PC to work with Emacs keybindings (particularly
> >> the navigation ones, C-e, C-a, C-n, C-p, C-k).
>
> > I know what you mean. Frequently I go from Emacs to, say, Firefox, and
> > accidentally hit Emacs keys causing FF to try and print pages, open
> > new windows, select all, and so on. Actually, for FF, there's an
> > extension called Firemacs that might be interesting.
>
> Yo, I just tried Firemacs, and C-x k does kill a tab.  Awesome!!!
>
> Joel
>
> --
> Joel J. Adamson
> Biostatistician
> Pediatric Psychopharmacology Research Unit
> Massachusetts General Hospital
> Boston, MA  02114
> (617) 643-1432
> (303) 880-3109

Wow, Firemacs really is awesome.  Better than the gtk emacs mode.
Sweet!

And yes, XKeymacs does the job nicely on Windows. I highly recommend
it.

Re: Emacs bindings in other programs

[YSK]

On Oct 30, 8:15 pm, John <jmg3...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Oct 26, 12:33 pm, YSK <koyf...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > [...] getting all other
> > programs in my Linux PC to work with Emacs keybindings (particularly
> > the navigation ones, C-e, C-a, C-n, C-p, C-k).
>
> I know what you mean. Frequently I go from Emacs to, say, Firefox, and
> accidentally hit Emacs keys causing FF to try and print pages, open
> new windows, select all, and so on. Actually, for FF, there's an
> extension called Firemacs that might be interesting.

Just installed Firemacs -- it works great.  Also, I use an add-on
called "It's All Text" that allows you launch external editors to edit
text fields on web pages.

>
> Anyhow, I think this is part of the reason there's so many tools
> written for use within Emacs. For example, you mention your Java-based
> mail client: you might have a look at Emacs' built-in email client
> "rmail" as a possible replacement which would allow you to use the
> familiar Emacs key combos. I'm guessing the EmacsWiki has info on many
> such replacement elisp apps.

Can Emacs talk to a Domino server? (We use Lotus Notes for mail.) I
didn't think it could do that.

>
> Regarding OO.o, the only thing I can suggest is that you look into
> alternatives that allow you to edit raw text. For example, you could
> try Plain TeX or LaTeX. Or maybe use some generic markup format for
> your docs, like reStructuredText ("reST"), asciidoc, Perl 6 Pod,
> Markdown, etc. With reST, there's a rst2odt.py tool to convert to OO.o
> document format (though it's still fairly new).
>
> ---John

Yes, I used to use LaTeX for this reason. But unfortunately I find I
still need to use an MS Word compatible word processor quite often.
On Windows, VBacs does a great job of making MS Word behave like Emacs
and I'd really like to find something analogous for OO.o.

Re: Emacs bindings in other programs

[Amy Templeton]

Martin Rubey <axiomize@yahoo.de>
> John <jmg3000@gmail.com> writes:
> > I know what you mean. Frequently I go from Emacs to, say, Firefox, and
> > accidentally hit Emacs keys causing FF to try and print pages, open
> > new windows, select all, and so on. 

I'd highly recommend Firemacs, which sets up (customizable) Emacs-like
keybindings for Firefox. I'd also recommend Conkeror for a more extreme
approach. And for editing textboxes, catching mailto: links, looking at page
source, etc., MozEx allows you to use an external program of your choice
(such as emacsclient) to do these tasks and more. Also, if you like keyboard
navigation but Conkeror is too much for you (unfortunately, since many
extensions are written such that they only work with the default Firefox
"chrome," which Conkeror takes the place of, many extensions do not play
nicely with it), you might also like Hit-a-Hint.

> What happens to me all the time is that I hit C-x b and expect emacs switch to
> the dvi or pdf viewer, or konqueror or whatever, or, if in such an application,
> switch back to emacs...

For DVI, PS, and PDF, there's always the new doc-view code, which I've found
*very* useful. 

> I'd really love to see my x-applications "live" in an emacs buffer, but I
> was told that that's difficult. On the other hand, I saw such an item on
> the emacs ToDo list, so maybe there is hope.

You might like Ratpoison or StumpWM. They're tiling, keyboard-driven window
managers influenced by Emacs and GNU Screen. StumpWM even has an optional
mode-line, and is *very* customizable because it is written in common lisp.

Anyway, just two cents.

Amy

-- 
Suspicion always haunts the guilty mind.
                -- Wm. Shakespeare

Re: Emacs bindings in other programs

[Rajappa Iyer]

Amy Templeton <amy.g.templeton@gmail.com> writes:

> Martin Rubey <axiomize@yahoo.de>
>> John <jmg3000@gmail.com> writes:
>> > I know what you mean. Frequently I go from Emacs to, say, Firefox, and
>> > accidentally hit Emacs keys causing FF to try and print pages, open
>> > new windows, select all, and so on. 
>
> I'd highly recommend Firemacs, which sets up (customizable) Emacs-like
> keybindings for Firefox. 

The problem with Firemacs is that I couldn't figure out a way to turn it
off for particular URLs.  e.g. Google Reader uses fairly sane
keybindings that I'd like to keep using.  Am I missing something?

rsi

Re: Emacs bindings in other programs

[Sven Bretfeld]

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Hi

YSK <koyfman@gmail.com> writes:

> Yes, I used to use LaTeX for this reason. But unfortunately I find I
> still need to use an MS Word compatible word processor quite often.
> On Windows, VBacs does a great job of making MS Word behave like Emacs
> and I'd really like to find something analogous for OO.o.

Since I discovered tex4ht I said goodbye to Word and OO.o-Writer for
ever. I can have my usual editing environment and the full power of
Emacs before I send people their beloved .doc files that tex4ht
produces quite free from error within a second (including BibTeX
data).

You should give it a try.

Greetings

Sven

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Re: Emacs bindings in other programs

[Joel J. Adamson]

Martin Rubey <axiomize@yahoo.de> writes:

> Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> writes:
>
>> > What happens to me all the time is that I hit C-x b and expect emacs
>> > switch to the dvi or pdf viewer, or konqueror or whatever, or, if in such
>> > an application, switch back to emacs...
>> 
>> With doc-view.el you can view your dvi/pdf files directly inside Emacs.
>
> Yes, but I'm really after something else.  There will always be applications
> that are "outside" of emacs but nevertheless great to use.

What do you mean?  How can they be great to use?  You obviously don't
actually like Emacs.  How dare you!?

Joel

-- 
Joel J. Adamson
Biostatistician
Pediatric Psychopharmacology Research Unit
Massachusetts General Hospital
Boston, MA  02114
(617) 643-1432
(303) 880-3109

Re: Emacs bindings in other programs

[Joel J. Adamson]

YSK <koyfman@gmail.com> writes:

> Just installed Firemacs -- it works great.  Also, I use an add-on
> called "It's All Text" that allows you launch external editors to edit
> text fields on web pages.

[...]

I use MozEx to follow mailto links and edit text fields.

Joel
-- 
Joel J. Adamson
Biostatistician
Pediatric Psychopharmacology Research Unit
Massachusetts General Hospital
Boston, MA  02114
(617) 643-1432
(303) 880-3109

Re: Emacs bindings in other programs

[YSK]

On Oct 31, 3:19 pm, Sven Bretfeld <sven.bretf...@gmx.ch> wrote:
> Hi
>
> YSK <koyf...@gmail.com> writes:
> > Yes, I used to use LaTeX for this reason. But unfortunately I find I
> > still need to use an MS Word compatible word processor quite often.
> > On Windows, VBacs does a great job of making MS Word behave like Emacs
> > and I'd really like to find something analogous for OO.o.
>
> Since I discovered tex4ht I said goodbye to Word and OO.o-Writer for
> ever. I can have my usual editing environment and the full power of
> Emacs before I send people their beloved .doc files that tex4ht
> produces quite free from error within a second (including BibTeX
> data).
>
> You should give it a try.
>
> Greetings
>
> Sven
>
>  application_pgp-signature_part
> 1KDownload

Thanks for the tip. I have a question about this tool, though:

According to http://www.cse.ohio-state.edu/~gurari/TeX4ht/mn-commands.html#QQ1-3-10:

[quote]
The OpenDocument code employs MathML for formulas, and XSL-FO for
formatting. It can be viewed by the OpenOffice word processor which,
in turn, can export RTF and other MicroSoft-based formats (see also,
Maarten Wisse, "Hacking TeX4ht for XML Output: The Road toward a TeX
to Word Convertor", MAPS 28 (2002), pp. 28-35).
[/quote]

Does this mean tex4ht requires OpenOffice to create MS Word .doc
files?

Re: Emacs bindings in other programs

[Alok G. Singh]

On 31 Oct 2007, koyfman@gmail.com wrote:

> Can Emacs talk to a Domino server? (We use Lotus Notes for mail.) I
> didn't think it could do that.

No it can't. You have to delve into the Domino client libraries for
that. 

However, if you work for IBM, there is an internal fetchmail-like
client by Tessa Lau which can fetch your mail.

-- 
Alok

Mountain Dew and doughnuts...  because breakfast is the most important meal
of the day.

Re: Emacs bindings in other programs

[Stefan Monnier]

> Apart from that, I'd be surprised if docview were as fast as a traditional
> viewer for larger documents.  (Especially when I'm editing them, so caching
> won't help)

I haven't yet switched away from xdvi and xpdf, but to tell you the truth,
I'm impressed with doc-view: it's pretty damn fast.

The main problems I've seen until now is the lack of zoom and the fact that
gs (used by doc-view to do the rendering) does anti-aliasing much less well
than xpdf (or xdvi).


        Stefan

Re: Emacs bindings in other programs

[Tim X]

Martin Rubey <axiomize@yahoo.de> writes:

> Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> writes:
>
>> > What happens to me all the time is that I hit C-x b and expect emacs
>> > switch to the dvi or pdf viewer, or konqueror or whatever, or, if in such
>> > an application, switch back to emacs...
>> 
>> With doc-view.el you can view your dvi/pdf files directly inside Emacs.
>
> Yes, but I'm really after something else.  There will always be applications
> that are "outside" of emacs but nevertheless great to use.
>
> Apart from that, I'd be surprised if docview were as fast as a traditional
> viewer for larger documents.  (Especially when I'm editing them, so caching
> won't help)
>
> Martin

Note that you can call other X apps from within emacs as a sub-process, you
just can't run them 'within' emacs itself. The downside is that you don't
get real integration. for example, auctex will start xdvi to view a dvi
file, browse-url can start/send urls to an external browser and I think
there are a couple of packages out there that can be used to cause dired to
open specific viewers for certain file types. Many emacs mail readers also
support this for mime types that cannot be shown natively in
emacs. However, because its not truely integrated into emacs, you cannot do
things like switch to the buffer with the normal (or even add-on) buffer
switching mechanisms. 

I've taken a slightly different approach. I'm running the sawfish window
manager, which is written in 'rep', a lisp/scheme like window manager that
is extensible in a similar way to emacs. I use its mechanisms to switch
workspaces, apps, windows etc. I also have some integration between emacs
and sawfish.

Tim



-- 
tcross (at) rapttech dot com dot au

Re: Emacs bindings in other programs

[David Kastrup]

Tim X <timx@nospam.dev.null> writes:

> Note that you can call other X apps from within emacs as a
> sub-process, you just can't run them 'within' emacs itself. The
> downside is that you don't get real integration. for example, auctex
> will start xdvi to view a dvi file

<URL:http://www.gnu.org/software/auctex/preview-latex.html>

-- 
David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum

Re: Emacs bindings in other programs

[YSK]

On Oct 31, 10:20 pm, alephn...@airtelbroadband.in (Alok G. Singh)
wrote:
> On 31 Oct 2007, koyf...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > Can Emacs talk to a Domino server? (We use Lotus Notes for mail.) I
> > didn't think it could do that.
>
> No it can't. You have to delve into the Domino client libraries for
> that.
>
> However, if you work for IBM, there is an internal fetchmail-like
> client by Tessa Lau which can fetch your mail.

Have you been able to get this to work? It seems like the Notes
features would be hard to replicate outside of Notes (like calendar,
mail attachments, etc..)

> --
> Alok
>
> Mountain Dew and doughnuts...  because breakfast is the most important meal
> of the day.

Re: Emacs bindings in other programs

[David Combs]

In article <87d4usupsu.fsf@lion.rapttech.com.au>,
Tim X  <timx@nospam.dev.null> wrote:
>
>Note that you can call other X apps from within emacs as a sub-process, you
>just can't run them 'within' emacs itself. The downside is that you don't ...

Like in dired, "!" on a .ps-file will run ghostview (I think I reacall), on a
.pdf will use either acrobat or xpdf, etc.

For me, the problem is that when you do that, everything else
in emacs is (or looks like it's) frozen.

Problematic when you want to read through some doc, and
while doing it, to pause while checking something out in some
other buffer.  No can do, at least not by "!" alone.

Would be nice if, say, a C-u ! put the new prog into
background or something, letting you bounce back and forth
between emacs and the app.

David

Re: Emacs bindings in other programs

[Tim X]

dkcombs@panix.com (David Combs) writes:

> In article <87d4usupsu.fsf@lion.rapttech.com.au>,
> Tim X  <timx@nospam.dev.null> wrote:
>>
>>Note that you can call other X apps from within emacs as a sub-process, you
>>just can't run them 'within' emacs itself. The downside is that you don't ...
>
> Like in dired, "!" on a .ps-file will run ghostview (I think I reacall), on a
> .pdf will use either acrobat or xpdf, etc.
>
> For me, the problem is that when you do that, everything else
> in emacs is (or looks like it's) frozen.
>
> Problematic when you want to read through some doc, and
> while doing it, to pause while checking something out in some
> other buffer.  No can do, at least not by "!" alone.
>
> Would be nice if, say, a C-u ! put the new prog into
> background or something, letting you bounce back and forth
> between emacs and the app.
>

I think this is just a limitation in how dired does the command call. Emacs
can do synchronous and asynchronous processes. I believe other packages
that can be used to call a new process to run another program can do it
asynchronously and therefore don't block emacs. Not sure if/how you can
make dired do this automatically, but if, for example, you have the cursor
on a pdf file and hit !, you will be prompted (with a default of something
like xpdf) for the program. If you enter xpdf * &, rather than accepting
the default, emacs will do an asynchronous process call to run xpdf and you
will be able to switch between xpdf and emacs with no problems. 

It may be possible to make this behavior the default by customizing dired
or dired-x.

My issue isn't the sunchronous/asynchronous problem, its that once I have
(lets say) xpdf running, if I want to cut and copy bits into an emacs
buffer, I have to use that bloody awful rodent and not the familiar and
faster emacs keybindings. Same sort of issue with searching and other
operations. For this reason, I've written my own little converter utility
which takes the file type (*.doc, *.pdf, *.ps etc) and converts it to text
and displays it in an emacs buffer. You do lose some formatting, but I find
this is offset by the better integration into emacs. I use a defadvice on
view-file so that if I hit v in dired on one of these file types, it
automatically does the conversion - otherwise it just views the file as
normal. I've also added a call to browse-url for files ending in html or
htm, so if I hit v on an html file, it is rendered with w3m. If I want to
see the actual contents for any of the file types that are handled
specially, I just use enter rather than 'v'. 

Tim

-- 
tcross (at) rapttech dot com dot au

Re: Emacs bindings in other programs

[Sebastian Tennant]

Quoth jadamson@partners.org (Joel J. Adamson):
> YSK <koyfman@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> Just installed Firemacs -- it works great.  Also, I use an add-on
>> called "It's All Text" that allows you launch external editors to edit
>> text fields on web pages.
>
> [...]
>
> I use MozEx to follow mailto links and edit text fields.
>

Could you tell us exactly how you use MozEx for following mailto: links
Joel.

Many thanks,

Sebastian

Re: Emacs bindings in other programs

[Joel J. Adamson]

Sebastian Tennant <sebyte@smolny.plus.com> writes:

> Quoth jadamson@partners.org (Joel J. Adamson):
>> YSK <koyfman@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> Just installed Firemacs -- it works great.  Also, I use an add-on
>>> called "It's All Text" that allows you launch external editors to edit
>>> text fields on web pages.
>>
>> [...]
>>
>> I use MozEx to follow mailto links and edit text fields.
>>
>
> Could you tell us exactly how you use MozEx for following mailto: links
> Joel.

Definitely: I have the following shell-script (suggestions welcome) that
I found on some webpage somewhere (~/.emacs.d/gnus-mailto.sh):

#!/bin/sh
/usr/bin/emacsclient -e "(message-mail \"$1\")"

and then in MozEx I enter "/home/joel/.emacs.d/gnus-mailto.sh %a" in the
"Mailer: " field, and check the "intercept mail clicks" box.

I must say that I've been using emacs-w3m for almost everything, and
I rarely start Firefox anymore.

The script could probably be redone in Elisp, too.

Joel

-- 
Joel J. Adamson
Biostatistician
Pediatric Psychopharmacology Research Unit
Massachusetts General Hospital
Boston, MA  02114
(617) 643-1432
(303) 880-3109

Re: Emacs bindings in other programs

[Malte Spiess]

Sebastian Tennant <sebyte@smolny.plus.com> writes:

> Could you tell us exactly how you use MozEx for following mailto: links
> Joel.

Please don't post the same questions in different newsgroups at the same
time (gnu.emacs.gnus and this one).

Thx
Malte

Re: Emacs bindings in other programs

[Sebastian Tennant]

Quoth jadamson@partners.org (Joel J. Adamson):
>>> I use MozEx to follow mailto links and edit text fields.
>> Could you tell us exactly how you use MozEx for following mailto: links
>> Joel?
> Definitely: I have the following shell-script (suggestions welcome) that
> I found on some webpage somewhere (~/.emacs.d/gnus-mailto.sh):
>
> #!/bin/sh
> /usr/bin/emacsclient -e "(message-mail \"$1\")"
>
> and then in MozEx I enter "/home/joel/.emacs.d/gnus-mailto.sh %a" in the
> "Mailer: " field, and check the "intercept mail clicks" box.

Many thanks.  This is something I've been wanting to do for ages.  Since
discovering MozEx I felt certain it was quite possible, and as always,
it's easy when you know the trick.

I've adapted the script slightly, well... a lot I suppose, because I
don't want to use (message-mail ...) to compose my mails.

I want to use (gnus-group-mail ARG), whose argument has nothing to do
with who you want to send the email to, but it does have the advantage
of making use of any posting styles you may have defined.

My script therefore simply puts the address in the kill ring so it can
be yanked into place once gnus-group-mail has set up the mail buffer.

Here it is:

 #!/bin/sh
 /usr/bin/emacsclient -e "(with-temp-buffer \
                            (insert \"$1\") \
                            (kill-region    \
                              (point) (progn (beginning-of-line) (point))) \
                            (gnus-group-mail))"

Sebastian

P.S. MozEx doesn't do tilde expansion.  Use an absolute path to the
     script, or none at all, if your script directory is already in your
     path

Re: Emacs bindings in other programs

[Sebastian Tennant]

Quoth Malte Spiess <i1tnews@arcor.de>:
> Sebastian Tennant <sebyte@smolny.plus.com> writes:
>
>> Could you tell us exactly how you use MozEx for following mailto: links
>> Joel.
>
> Please don't post the same questions in different newsgroups at the same
> time (gnu.emacs.gnus and this one).

If you read my initial post in gmane.emacs.gnus.general you will see my
clearly stated reasons for cross-posting, although this isn't
cross-posting really.... note the entirely different subject lines.

My post here was nothing more than a follow-up question to something
Joel said earlier.

Sebastian

Re: Emacs bindings in other programs

[David Combs]

In article <87ir3es07k.fsf@kirt.news.arcor.de>,
Malte Spiess  <i1tnews@arcor.de> wrote:
...
>
>Please don't post the same questions in different newsgroups at the same
>time (gnu.emacs.gnus and this one).
>
>Thx
>Malte
>


Seems to me that cross-posting could actually be *useful*
sometimes.   

At least for this:

You've got several newsgroups on (almost) totally different
subjects.  Perhaps this one and the main lisp one,  Maybe
also Haskel, say.

But they overlap in that they all make use of one particular
idea, like deep-vs-shallow (dynamic=special vs what, lexical),
each group having true gurus, say, on that subject.

Wouldn't cross-posting a question to those groups enable
a discussion across the three groups, where each group's
readers get the benefit of *all* those gurus talking
among themselves?

Would it not be especially valuable if very few of those
gurus frequented even two of the groups, to say nothing
of all three!

I mean, what other *easy* ways are there to accomplish
such a thing (getting such a discussion going)?

Especially with the three groups of *viewers* of the thread
being forced into "heroic" measures, like having to read
an agreed-upon *one* of the three groups (they've been
referred to), for 2/3rds of them perhaps a group
they would never otherwise have any interest in?

Anyway, seems reasonable to me.

And weirdly to me, very few seem to agree that this would
indeed be a "legit" use of cross-posting.

Which to this day I've never understood.


Comments?  (Flames, no, please.)

David

Re: Emacs bindings in other programs

[Malte Spiess]

dkcombs@panix.com (David Combs) writes:

> Seems to me that cross-posting could actually be *useful*
> sometimes.   

Well, I agree, but this one was not about crossposting, but posting the
same question in 2 newsgroups without mentioning the other in each one.

Greetings
Malte