From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Juri Linkov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: breadcrumbs for Info . . . . . . Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 12:34:07 +0300 Organization: JURTA Message-ID: <873ankqou6.fsf@jurta.org> References: <009d01c8cb55$13d53e20$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <87fxrkltma.fsf@jurta.org> <00ae01c8cb71$c26aeef0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1213178302 22537 80.91.229.12 (11 Jun 2008 09:58:22 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 09:58:22 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: "Drew Adams" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Jun 11 11:59:04 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1K6N6c-0002o4-7v for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 11 Jun 2008 11:59:02 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60745 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1K6N5o-0003kh-Kg for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 11 Jun 2008 05:58:12 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1K6N5f-0003k9-L0 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 11 Jun 2008 05:58:03 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1K6N5d-0003jq-65 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 11 Jun 2008 05:58:02 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=60388 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1K6N5d-0003jl-0B for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 11 Jun 2008 05:58:01 -0400 Original-Received: from relay03.kiev.sovam.com ([62.64.120.201]:58375) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1K6N5b-0006lp-UT for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 11 Jun 2008 05:58:00 -0400 Original-Received: from [83.170.232.243] (helo=smtp.svitonline.com) by relay03.kiev.sovam.com with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1K6N5a-0004l4-7X; Wed, 11 Jun 2008 12:57:58 +0300 In-Reply-To: <00ae01c8cb71$c26aeef0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> (Drew Adams's message of "Tue, 10 Jun 2008 20:18:02 -0700") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.0.60 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) X-Scanner-Signature: 6f32a619495bd298c8ed4cb100af0918 X-DrWeb-checked: yes X-SpamTest-Envelope-From: juri@jurta.org X-SpamTest-Group-ID: 00000000 X-SpamTest-Header: Trusted X-SpamTest-Info: Profiles 3090 [June 11 2008] X-SpamTest-Info: {received from trusted relay: common white list} X-SpamTest-Info: {HEADERS: header Content-Type found without required header Content-Transfer-Encoding} X-SpamTest-Method: white ip list X-SpamTest-Rate: 10 X-SpamTest-Status: Trusted X-SpamTest-Status-Extended: trusted X-SpamTest-Version: SMTP-Filter Version 3.0.0 [0278], KAS30/Release X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: FreeBSD 6.x (1) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:98935 Archived-At: > However, I don't think that the current breadcrumbs approach is a problem or > that the other (TOC) approach would be better. Why? Because most manuals are not > deep. I picked the deepest node I found in the Emacs manual (by looking at the > TOC) as the example I sent. And I see no performance problem with that depth. When nodes are in different files, visiting all ancestor nodes means visiting several files that is slow on slow machines/connections. For instance, the first node in the file info/emacs-4 is: File: emacs, Node: Fortran Indent, Next: Fortran Comments, Prev: Fortran Motion, Up: Fortran 31.13.2 Fortran Indentation So to display this node, it needs to open the file info/emacs-3 that contains its parent node Fortran, and the top file info/emacs-1. > We have only a certain number of possible heading levels, and it works fine for > those, AFAICT. I see that with the shallow structure of Info manuals, most breadcrumbs will just duplicate the Up: node reference in the header line. > Remember, breadcrumbs reflect document structure, not chronological > visits (as they always should). They are not meant to duplicate the > Back button (`l'). Yes, I know. That's why I think "breadcrumbs" is an inappropriate name for this feature. Unfortunately, it is already too widespread on the Web. -- Juri Linkov http://www.jurta.org/emacs/