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From: Thien-Thi Nguyen <ttn@gnuvola.org>
To: Thomas Lord <lord@emf.net>
Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Release plans
Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2008 11:27:08 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <873aklpmab.fsf@ambire.localdomain> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <48B87DFE.80806@emf.net> (Thomas Lord's message of "Fri, 29 Aug 2008 15:53:50 -0700")

() Thomas Lord <lord@emf.net>
() Fri, 29 Aug 2008 15:53:50 -0700

   You contrast [...]
   If you are going to have (2c) then
   you also implicitly have:

        (2c') emacs -- [shared buffer] -- any[*]

        [*] any program that knows the buffer data structure
        and sharing protocol

   In other words, (2c) is one possible API for a dynamic loader in
   Emacs.

Instead of "contrast", you can look at shared buffers as the
strength- (and thus complexity- and maintenance-burden-)reduced
well-behaved little brother to the dynamic loader.  This is
because the focus is on sharing data, not the program counter.

   A shared buffer API is just as much an invitation to non-free
   add-ons as a dlopen API, but the shared buffer API is probably
   (I'd agree with you, if we're just kibbitzing) better for free
   software developers, better for Emacs maintainers, etc.

If you keep the protocol focused on data, then you stay out of the
scope of free software (modulo what GPLv3 brings to bear wrt
patents).  This is the primary {at,de}traction of this (and any
network-protocol-based) approach.

   I think that there are leaks in that abstraction -- it's not
   quite as minimal and contained as I think you suggest.
   [design issues]

OK.

   By what metric should we be invited to measure the compromise?
   and then how is the compromise implemented?  and how does it
   perform? and what is it good for?

These are good questions.  I don't know their answers.

thi




  reply	other threads:[~2008-08-31  9:27 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 338+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2008-08-12 14:34 Release plans A Soare
2008-08-12 14:52 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-08-12 17:14 ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-08-13  6:26   ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-13  9:20     ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-08-14  5:19       ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-14  8:38         ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-08-14  9:33           ` Johannes Weiner
2008-08-14  9:49             ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2008-08-14 10:04               ` Johannes Weiner
2008-08-14 10:30                 ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-08-14 11:07                   ` Johannes Weiner
2008-08-14 11:44                     ` Tassilo Horn
2008-08-14 12:27                       ` Johannes Weiner
2008-08-15 12:45                       ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-14 12:39                     ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-08-14 13:15                       ` Johannes Weiner
2008-08-14 13:28                         ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-08-14 13:41                           ` Johannes Weiner
2008-08-14 17:08                             ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-08-14 14:30                         ` Gilaras Drakeson
2008-08-14 18:00                       ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-08-15 12:45                         ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-15 14:18                         ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-08-15 17:54                           ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-08-15 12:45                       ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-15 16:29                         ` Johannes Weiner
2008-08-16 10:40                           ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-14 10:37                 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2008-08-14 11:24                   ` Johannes Weiner
2008-08-14 12:54                     ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2008-08-14 13:31                       ` Johannes Weiner
2008-08-14 14:02                         ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2008-08-14 16:55                           ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-08-15 12:45                         ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-16  1:41                           ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-08-17  7:16                             ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-15  3:41                 ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-15  4:04                   ` Sean O'Rourke
2008-08-15 20:12                     ` Michael Ekstrand
2008-08-15  5:08                   ` Johannes Weiner
2008-08-16  0:08                     ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-16  5:14                       ` Johannes Weiner
2008-08-15 17:20                   ` Thomas Lord
2008-08-16 10:39                     ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-16 12:05                       ` joakim
2008-08-17  7:16                         ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-17  9:32                           ` joakim
2008-08-18  6:14                             ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-18  7:19                               ` Tassilo Horn
2008-08-18  8:03                               ` Stefan Monnier
2008-08-18  8:26                               ` joakim
2008-08-19 12:21                                 ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-19 13:02                                   ` Johannes Weiner
2008-08-20  3:47                                     ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-20  5:20                                       ` Johannes Weiner
2008-08-19 13:42                                   ` Tassilo Horn
2008-08-20  3:48                                     ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-18 14:20                               ` Gilaras Drakeson
2008-08-18 17:13                               ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-08-18 17:42                                 ` Paul R
2008-08-19 12:21                                 ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-20  0:01                                   ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-08-21 23:09                                     ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-22  0:34                                       ` whither GNU Thomas Lord
2008-08-22  0:17                                         ` Juanma Barranquero
2008-08-22  3:40                                           ` David Robinow
2008-08-22  7:36                                             ` Johannes Weiner
2008-08-23  5:09                                               ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-22 10:21                                             ` Juanma Barranquero
2008-08-22 21:31                                               ` Thomas Lord
     [not found]                                                 ` <858wuoad0u.fsf@lola.goethe.zz>
2008-08-23  4:56                                                   ` Thomas Lord
2008-08-16 16:29                       ` Release plans Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-08-16 21:04                       ` Thomas Lord
2008-08-16 21:35                         ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-08-16 22:43                           ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-08-17  7:31                             ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-08-18  0:01                               ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-08-18 10:18                                 ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-08-18 17:58                                   ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-08-18 20:20                                     ` Dynamic loading (was: Release plans) Stefan Monnier
2008-08-18 22:18                                       ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-08-20 16:15                                         ` Dynamic loading Stefan Monnier
2008-08-20 16:57                                           ` joakim
2008-08-25 13:09                                           ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-08-26 16:37                                             ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-18 21:09                                     ` Release plans Alan Mackenzie
2008-08-18 23:27                                       ` Johannes Weiner
2008-08-19 10:23                                         ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-08-19 11:56                                           ` Johannes Weiner
2008-08-19  9:46                                       ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-08-19 12:36                                         ` Robert J. Chassell
2008-08-20  5:55                                           ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-08-20 17:48                                             ` Robert J. Chassell
2008-08-25  1:34                                               ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-08-25 10:47                                                 ` Robert J. Chassell
2008-08-25 13:13                                                   ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-08-25 15:19                                                     ` Robert J. Chassell
2008-08-25 17:11                                                       ` Thomas Lord
2008-08-26  4:10                                                         ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-08-26 10:59                                                           ` Robert J. Chassell
2008-08-27  5:00                                                             ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-08-27 11:37                                                               ` Robert J. Chassell
2008-08-28  5:42                                                                 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-08-28 10:17                                                                   ` Robert J. Chassell
2008-08-26 16:37                                                       ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-26 18:14                                                         ` Thomas Lord
2008-08-27 18:54                                                           ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-27 20:33                                                             ` Paul R
2008-08-29  2:41                                                               ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-29  5:34                                                                 ` Thomas Lord
2008-08-29 11:39                                                                   ` Bruce Stephens
2008-08-29 13:11                                                                     ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-08-29 19:23                                                                       ` Thomas Lord
2008-08-29 20:03                                                                         ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
2008-08-29 20:20                                                                           ` Stefan Monnier
2008-08-29 20:53                                                                             ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-08-29 23:24                                                                               ` Thomas Lord
2008-08-29 22:56                                                                             ` Thomas Lord
2008-08-30 19:51                                                                             ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
2008-08-30 23:07                                                                               ` Thomas Lord
2008-08-31  9:09                                                                                 ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
2008-08-29 22:53                                                                           ` Thomas Lord
2008-08-31  9:27                                                                             ` Thien-Thi Nguyen [this message]
2008-08-29 19:13                                                                     ` Thomas Lord
2008-08-29 23:48                                                                     ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-09-01  6:11                                                                   ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-09-01 18:25                                                                     ` Thomas Lord
2008-08-27 22:32                                                             ` Thomas Lord
2008-08-27 21:57                                                               ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2008-08-28  0:10                                                                 ` Thomas Lord
2008-08-29  2:40                                                                   ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-29  5:30                                                                     ` Thomas Lord
2008-08-27 22:09                                                               ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-08-28  1:10                                                                 ` Thomas Lord
2008-09-01  6:11                                                                   ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-09-01 18:09                                                                     ` Thomas Lord
2008-09-02  1:09                                                                       ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-09-02  2:18                                                                         ` Thomas Lord
2008-09-02 14:13                                                                           ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-09-02 20:48                                                                             ` Thomas Lord
2008-09-01 18:20                                                                     ` Stefan Monnier
2008-09-01 20:17                                                                       ` Thomas Lord
2008-09-01 19:53                                                                         ` Stefan Monnier
2008-09-01 21:23                                                                           ` Thomas Lord
2008-09-02  3:26                                                                         ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-09-02 20:43                                                                           ` Thomas Lord
2008-09-03  5:08                                                                             ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-08-27 23:09                                                               ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-08-28  0:22                                                                 ` Thomas Lord
2008-08-28  1:01                                                                   ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-08-26 21:25                                                         ` joakim
2008-08-29  2:41                                                           ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-19 15:52                                         ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-08-25 14:39                                           ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-08-25 22:01                                             ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-08-25 22:19                                               ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-08-26  4:54                                               ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-08-26  7:16                                                 ` ["agree"] " Thomas Lord
2008-08-27  5:10                                                   ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-08-27 16:00                                                     ` Thomas Lord
2008-08-26 10:02                                                 ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-08-27  5:38                                                   ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-08-27 21:06                                                     ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-08-27 21:12                                                       ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-08-28 20:01                                                         ` Sean Sieger
2008-08-28  6:07                                                       ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-08-27 15:57                                                 ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
2008-08-27 18:33                                                   ` tomas
2008-08-28  6:09                                                     ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-08-28  8:14                                                       ` tomas
2008-08-28  7:25                                                     ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-08-28  8:23                                                       ` tomas
2008-08-28  6:26                                                   ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-08-19 16:31                                         ` Thomas Lord
2008-08-20  3:47                                         ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-20  6:14                                           ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-08-19 12:21                                     ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-19 13:04                                       ` Paul R
2008-08-20  3:48                                         ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-17  2:37                           ` Thomas Lord
2008-08-17  8:01                             ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-08-17 17:42                               ` Thomas Lord
2008-08-17 21:07                                 ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-08-17 21:24                                   ` Johannes Weiner
2008-08-17 21:33                                     ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2008-08-17 22:31                                       ` Johannes Weiner
2008-08-18  3:06                                   ` Thomas Lord
2008-08-18  6:14                                   ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-17 21:45                                 ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
2008-08-18  6:14                                 ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-18 17:09                                   ` Thomas Lord
2008-08-19 16:28                                   ` René Kyllingstad
2008-08-20  3:48                                     ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-17  7:16                           ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-15  3:41               ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-15 17:17                 ` Thomas Lord
2008-08-16 10:40                   ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-16  7:14                 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2008-08-14 17:24             ` Stefan Monnier
2008-08-15  3:41           ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-15 14:04             ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-08-15 15:10               ` [OT] " Yavor Doganov
2008-08-16  7:05                 ` Miles Bader
2008-08-17  7:16                   ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-15 16:35               ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-08-15 18:07                 ` Thomas Lord
2008-08-16 10:40               ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-16 10:40               ` Richard M. Stallman
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2008-08-14 15:36 Robert J. Chassell
2008-08-14 15:51 ` Johannes Weiner
2008-08-14 21:00   ` Robert J. Chassell
2008-08-14 22:58     ` Johannes Weiner
     [not found] <SRV-ADEXCHyjlMFAVNL0000090e@waccglobal.org>
2008-08-13 14:07 ` Mike Rowse
2008-08-13  1:30 A Soare
2008-08-12 20:51 A Soare
2008-08-12 21:35 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-08-12 20:16 christophe
2008-08-12 18:57 A Soare
2008-08-12 18:54 A Soare
2008-08-12 18:58 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-08-12 18:41 A Soare
2008-08-12 18:46 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-08-12 18:55 ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-08-12 18:38 A Soare
2008-08-12 18:36 A Soare
2008-08-12 18:04 A Soare
2008-08-12 18:21 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-08-12 18:25   ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-08-12 15:34 A Soare
2008-08-12 15:59 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-08-12 13:51 A Soare
2008-08-12 13:37 A Soare
2008-08-12 13:50 ` martin rudalics
2008-08-12 17:16   ` Johannes Weiner
2008-08-12 14:02 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-08-12 14:54 ` Paul R
2008-08-12 18:37 ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-08-12 19:16   ` Óscar Fuentes
2008-08-12 19:41     ` Paul R
2008-08-12 13:11 A Soare
2008-08-12 13:20 ` Juanma Barranquero
2008-08-12 15:54   ` Johannes Weiner
2008-08-13  6:26     ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-13  7:05       ` Johannes Weiner
2008-08-12 13:24 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-08-12 12:21 A Soare
2008-08-12 12:33 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-08-12 13:42 ` Michael Ekstrand
2008-08-13  6:27   ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-13  7:14     ` Alex Ott
2008-08-12 14:45 ` Miles Bader
2008-08-12 14:56   ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-08-12 16:47   ` Drew Adams
2008-08-13 20:20     ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-12 18:34 ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-08-05  2:53 dhruva
2008-08-05  4:43 ` tomas
2008-08-05 21:48 ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-07-31  9:54 dhruva
2008-07-31 22:01 ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-30  9:58 dhruva
2008-07-31  1:59 ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-31  9:30   ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-07-31 22:01     ` Richard M Stallman
2008-08-01 14:15       ` Frank Schmitt
2008-08-01 14:51         ` Miles Bader
2008-08-02  5:12         ` Richard M Stallman
2008-08-02  7:20           ` Frank Schmitt
2008-08-03  1:33             ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-03 11:38               ` Juanma Barranquero
2008-08-03 22:42                 ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-03 23:16                   ` Juanma Barranquero
2008-08-04 15:55                   ` Davi Leal
2008-08-05 21:48                     ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-12  4:48                   ` Thomas Lord
2008-08-12  7:30                     ` Miles Bader
2008-08-12 15:37                       ` Thomas Lord
2008-08-12 10:32                     ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-12 16:08                       ` Thomas Lord
2008-08-13 20:20                         ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-03 13:48               ` Nic
2008-08-03 22:42                 ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-01 15:31       ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-08-02  5:12         ` Richard M Stallman
2008-08-02 17:12           ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-08-02 23:46             ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-08-03  1:33             ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-03 18:01               ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-08-04 15:33                 ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-12  4:24               ` Thomas Lord
2008-08-12 10:32                 ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-12 16:12                   ` Thomas Lord
2008-08-03  1:33             ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-03 17:51               ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-08-04 15:33                 ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-04 19:08                   ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-08-05  8:05                     ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-01 17:39       ` Davi Leal
2008-08-02  5:12         ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-14 15:07 Chong Yidong
2008-07-17  0:27 ` Juri Linkov
2008-07-17  6:41   ` David Kastrup
2008-07-21  4:49 ` Chong Yidong
2008-07-21  8:06   ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
2008-07-21 13:32     ` Chong Yidong
2008-07-21 14:19       ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
2008-07-23 20:52   ` Michael Albinus
2008-07-23 21:42     ` Chong Yidong
2008-07-26  7:39   ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-07-26 21:33     ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-27  3:22       ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-07-27 17:14         ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-27 19:14           ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-07-28 21:46             ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-29  3:12               ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-07-30  3:47                 ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-30 17:33                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-07-28 13:43     ` Juri Linkov
2008-07-28 14:10       ` Chong Yidong
2008-07-28 14:33         ` Juri Linkov
2008-07-29 17:11           ` Chong Yidong
2008-07-29 17:54             ` Stefan Monnier
2008-07-29 15:21     ` Roland Winkler
2008-08-02 17:34     ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-08-09 18:29       ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-08-09 18:34         ` Juanma Barranquero
2008-08-09 19:06           ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-07-31  2:10   ` Bastien
2008-07-31  2:43     ` Chong Yidong
2008-07-31  8:06       ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-08-01  2:53         ` Bastien
2008-08-01 19:26 ` Jay Belanger
2008-08-01 19:32   ` Chong Yidong
2008-08-02 16:12     ` Jay Belanger
2008-08-02  4:08   ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-08-02 17:30   ` Richard M Stallman
2008-08-05  4:04   ` Bill Wohler

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