From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?utf-8?Q?=C3=93scar_Fuentes?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs learning curve Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2010 03:44:35 +0200 Message-ID: <8739vqg5bw.fsf@telefonica.net> References: <10954D02-E217-49F3-8824-757DA34074AB@gmail.com> <83zkxzakr0.fsf@gnu.org> <83pqyva8ms.fsf@gnu.org> <87y6di4ytw.fsf@gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1278812701 1147 80.91.229.12 (11 Jul 2010 01:45:01 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2010 01:45:01 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Jul 11 03:44:59 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OXlbG-0001P6-38 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 11 Jul 2010 03:44:58 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50363 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OXlbF-0001GW-Eu for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 10 Jul 2010 21:44:57 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=53620 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OXlb9-0001Ep-S8 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 10 Jul 2010 21:44:52 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OXlb8-0001ha-Kg for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 10 Jul 2010 21:44:51 -0400 Original-Received: from lo.gmane.org ([80.91.229.12]:52156) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OXlb8-0001hT-CW for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 10 Jul 2010 21:44:50 -0400 Original-Received: from list by lo.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OXlb4-0001MW-Lx for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 11 Jul 2010 03:44:46 +0200 Original-Received: from 250.red-81-33-125.dynamicip.rima-tde.net ([81.33.125.250]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sun, 11 Jul 2010 03:44:46 +0200 Original-Received: from ofv by 250.red-81-33-125.dynamicip.rima-tde.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sun, 11 Jul 2010 03:44:46 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 27 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 250.red-81-33-125.dynamicip.rima-tde.net User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:jC2+IBQfTtdwq++oW5bzmgwN81c= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:127019 Archived-At: Sean Sieger writes: > I have several times pointed out that it is the sum of the differences > that makes it difficult for new users. The stories about users wanting > to try but giving up partly because they realize they do not have time > to go through all the differences are frequent. > > This is ridiculous, Lennart. > > Not reading something because it doesn't `read' the way you want it to > ... um, sounds like sheer laziness. You are assuming that the begginner is determined to learn and use Emacs. Nowadays this is a big assumption. People no longer is restricted to a few options that a sysadmin installed. It would be wiser to arrange things as if the user was taking a quick look at Emacs out of curiosity. I learned about Emacs' existence circa 1998. It looked strange, complex and primitive. Some years after I did the significant effort of learning and configuring Emacs only after some strong recommendation from someone whom I respect highly. Then we tried to proselytize among the members of the programming community where both of us were quite active, but only gained one or two converts. Although we convinced quite a few people to try Emacs, the usual reaction was the same I had at the beginning: intimidating, weird, unnecessarily complex... and they stopped there. [snip]