From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Sean Sieger Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs learning curve Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 19:07:57 -0400 Message-ID: <8739vjf2k2.fsf@gmail.com> References: <4C3B6A8A.80105@gmx.de> <87iq4f8gyh.fsf@telefonica.net> <874ofzl2ji.fsf@mithlond.arda> <201007162023.32116.tassilo@member.fsf.org> <87zkxrjihf.fsf@mithlond.arda> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1279321699 20013 80.91.229.12 (16 Jul 2010 23:08:19 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 23:08:19 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Jul 17 01:08:18 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OZu0w-00050J-22 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 17 Jul 2010 01:08:18 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54079 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OZu0v-0000Av-E3 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 16 Jul 2010 19:08:17 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=48490 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OZu0p-0000Ag-Tf for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 16 Jul 2010 19:08:12 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OZu0o-0007Yp-OY for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 16 Jul 2010 19:08:11 -0400 Original-Received: from lo.gmane.org ([80.91.229.12]:34401) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OZu0o-0007Yc-Ah for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 16 Jul 2010 19:08:10 -0400 Original-Received: from list by lo.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OZu0m-0004wk-O6 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 17 Jul 2010 01:08:08 +0200 Original-Received: from pool-68-161-33-43.ny325.east.verizon.net ([68.161.33.43]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sat, 17 Jul 2010 01:08:08 +0200 Original-Received: from sean.sieger by pool-68-161-33-43.ny325.east.verizon.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sat, 17 Jul 2010 01:08:08 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 30 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: pool-68-161-33-43.ny325.east.verizon.net User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.50 (windows-nt) Cancel-Lock: sha1:YHDxvPBlKCQqP48dEgvX5Dpuhbk= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:127462 Archived-At: Powerful text editor should depend on ergonomics and muscle memory and make rebinding keys easy (for different keyboard layouts like Dvorak). While Emacs is otherwise very powerful text editor it has these serious flaws: - The default movement keys are not ergonomic. - While rebinding movement keys is technically easy, in practice it is very difficult because many/some major modes will reuse the f-b-n-p mnemonic practice anyway. User would need tons of custom hooks for different major modes to change bindings like C-c C-fbnp to something more ergonomic. The established (mnemonic) practice leaves me to conclude that tolerating the suboptimal default keys is still lesser pain. The situation is suboptimal but will probably never change. Context has considerable bearing here. The greater the touch typing skill, the lesser the difficulty. No? You guys, I work with a 100-mph television talent, while on the air, before the world (one can't see him do this for framing), this man types ... I'm tellin' ya 100-mph. With an index finger and a scrunched up hand. I asked him, how fast, he said 100-wpm. I want believe him, but I take it with a grain of salt. The point is could he ever capitalize on key combinations, editing power like we know of Vi or Emacs? No way. Right? I also asked him about touch typing and he said his body refuses. Got me? The context is our own context. Our limitations are our own limitations, in the center there are cool-daddy tools like GNU Emacs.