From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Ted Zlatanov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: GnuTLS for W32 Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2012 06:02:30 -0500 Organization: =?utf-8?B?0KLQtdC+0LTQvtGAINCX0LvQsNGC0LDQvdC+0LI=?= @ Cienfuegos Message-ID: <8739bv91dl.fsf@lifelogs.com> References: <87ty4fbje8.fsf@lifelogs.com> <83ehvjs8t5.fsf@gnu.org> <87pqf3bcom.fsf@lifelogs.com> <83boqns68o.fsf@gnu.org> <87liprazr1.fsf@lifelogs.com> <83wr9bqez3.fsf@gnu.org> <87y5tr9dwv.fsf_-_@lifelogs.com> <87k45alwgb.fsf@wanadoo.es> <87fwfyltm1.fsf@wanadoo.es> <87boqmlrma.fsf@wanadoo.es> <87ty4e9j19.fsf@lifelogs.com> <83obumqa0v.fsf@gnu.org> <87ipktag2e.fsf@lifelogs.com> <8762gt9blm.fsf@lifelogs.com> <83fwfwra0t.fsf@gnu.org> Reply-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1325674991 2814 80.91.229.12 (4 Jan 2012 11:03:11 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2012 11:03:11 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Jan 04 12:03:08 2012 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1RiOcc-0001IL-Mk for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 04 Jan 2012 12:03:06 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:34895 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RiOcc-0005hT-AL for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 04 Jan 2012 06:03:06 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:38425) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RiOcX-0005hJ-DR for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 04 Jan 2012 06:03:05 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RiOcQ-0005Xi-F2 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 04 Jan 2012 06:03:01 -0500 Original-Received: from lo.gmane.org ([80.91.229.12]:54572) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RiOcQ-0005XD-6I for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 04 Jan 2012 06:02:54 -0500 Original-Received: from list by lo.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1RiOcO-0001B5-EZ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 04 Jan 2012 12:02:52 +0100 Original-Received: from c-76-28-40-19.hsd1.vt.comcast.net ([76.28.40.19]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Wed, 04 Jan 2012 12:02:52 +0100 Original-Received: from tzz by c-76-28-40-19.hsd1.vt.comcast.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Wed, 04 Jan 2012 12:02:52 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Mail-Followup-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-Lines: 50 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: c-76-28-40-19.hsd1.vt.comcast.net X-Face: bd.DQ~'29fIs`T_%O%C\g%6jW)yi[zuz6; d4V0`@y-~$#3P_Ng{@m+e4o<4P'#(_GJQ%TT= D}[Ep*b!\e,fBZ'j_+#"Ps?s2!4H2-Y"sx" Mail-Copies-To: never User-Agent: Gnus/5.110018 (No Gnus v0.18) Emacs/24.0.90 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:/55z6rKe/wthA3XRV613qcTAJc4= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-Received-From: 80.91.229.12 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:147260 Archived-At: On Tue, 03 Jan 2012 19:21:14 +0200 Eli Zaretskii wrote: EZ> No, it is _not_ hard for the user to put the DLL in the correct EZ> directory. It is hard for _us_, the programmers of package.el, to EZ> select a fixed directory that would work for all users, so that we EZ> could hardcode its absolute file name in the Emacs sources. An EZ> entirely different issue. The addendum is "...and so GnuTLS is available to non-Emacs processes too" which is something I did not consider carefully but your mention of wget brought up. We don't want multiple versions of the GnuTLS DLL all over the place, that could be worse for security than a single outdated version. So the package.el install is not a good W32 solution to deliver GnuTLS, after all. On Tue, 03 Jan 2012 20:51:28 +0100 Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen wrote: LMI> And since the (major) binary GNU/Linux distributions will be providing LMI> the gnutls libraries with Emacs, then we should, too? :-) We should find a way, yes. But we should be smart about it, and a GnuTLS installer, separate from Emacs, would benefit far more users and projects, and it would use the right APIs to deploy the DLL. On Tue, 03 Jan 2012 19:10:14 +0100 Óscar Fuentes wrote: ÓF> The standard MS installers have a mechanism for detecting when a dll is ÓF> in use and, if the result is positive, arrange things for updating it on ÓF> the next restart or login. A poor's man method for detecting when a dll ÓF> is in use is just trying to overwrite it (after you know that you have ÓF> write access to the file). Because of this, I think we (emacs-devel and gnutls-devel) should just put together a W32 installer for GnuTLS. Obviously this would be connected to the GnuTLS project but I think Nikos (whose name I've misspelled as Nicos a few times) could use some help with such an installer. Is there another GNU project that provides a W32 DLL *self-updating* installer, so I can get them started with that project? I may end up owning that installer, we'll see what the GnuTLS developers want. But it would let GnuTLS issue updates, remove a release dependency between their project and Emacs, and remove the tedious requirement of downloading a zip file and installing it manually. On the Emacs side on W32, if GnuTLS is not installed, we should tell the user how to install it by pointing to the W32 installer (running it automatically is probably too aggressive). The more I think about it, the more appropriate this solution seems for everyone concerned. Ted