From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Philipp Haselwarter Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Emacs users a dying breed? Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 14:35:58 +0200 Message-ID: <87395mw6hd.fsf@nzebook.haselwarter.org> References: <9809cd1a-9086-4022-af79-732fb6149f20@q5g2000pba.googlegroups.com> <87mx3vzqd7.fsf@friendface.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-tickle-me> <87ipejzjce.fsf@friendface.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-tickle-me> <4FE45F11.2060105@easy-emacs.de> <874nq35wh3.wl%lists@groll.co.za> <87bokaw9dh.fsf@nzebook.haselwarter.org> <87395mxmg4.fsf@mithlond.arda> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1340454988 18817 80.91.229.3 (23 Jun 2012 12:36:28 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 12:36:28 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Jun 23 14:36:27 2012 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1SiPZh-0007VP-Ix for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 14:36:25 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:43451 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SiPZh-000559-H8 for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 08:36:25 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:55665) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SiPZa-00054t-J0 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 08:36:19 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SiPZY-0007fA-S0 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 08:36:18 -0400 Original-Received: from plane.gmane.org ([80.91.229.3]:58518) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SiPZY-0007f6-LF for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 08:36:16 -0400 Original-Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1SiPZT-0007N0-Jr for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 14:36:11 +0200 Original-Received: from 130.116.113.78.rev.sfr.net ([78.113.116.130]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 14:36:11 +0200 Original-Received: from philipp by 130.116.113.78.rev.sfr.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 14:36:11 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 37 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 130.116.113.78.rev.sfr.net User-Agent: Gnus/5.130006 (Ma Gnus v0.6) Emacs/24.1.50 (gnu/linux) X-NSA-Fodder: EBS Home grown Tremor X-Drdoom-Fodder: security drdoom crash crypt root satan Cancel-Lock: sha1:H+88hA57OzOyoVDMQCHX3wWytww= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 80.91.229.3 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:85390 Archived-At: On Sat, Jun 23 2012 14:05 (@1340453147), Teemu Likonen wrote: > Philipp Haselwarter [2012-06-23 13:33:30 +0200] wrote: > >> I very much disagree, one of the things emacs is most frequently >> accused of is bloat. Overhauling some of the defaults might be worth >> discussing, but adding even more code to the core distribution seems >> to be the wrong approach. IMO Emacs should focus on providing the core >> - an editing engine and a lisp interpreter - and let the user decide >> which plugins he wants to run. > > The Emacs distribution (.tar.gz) contains all bells and whistles but not > everything is loaded into memory. What is loaded by default is pretty > much only the Emacs Lisp interpreter and the editing core and autoload > definitions for other features. I don't know for a fact what is loaded by default, but the distribution surely contains a lot of elisp programs that are not of interest for most users. > And Emacs is a very light-weight program by today's standards. I think > it was bloated in the 80's. On my 64bit linux system the emacs executable weights in at 13M, feel free to comparing that to any other interpreter. > From the point of view of code maintenance it might be good idea to have > more code on a (semi-)official package repository. If I maintained an > official Emacs package I'd prefer using my own version control system > etc. and just upload releases to official package archive. ELPA allows you to do just that. Maybe some of the packages distributed with emacs would see some more attention and patches if they had their own repos and communities instead of living in the emacs tree. -- Philipp Haselwarter