From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Stephen J. Turnbull" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Proposal to improve the nomenclature of scrolling directions Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2012 16:18:25 +0900 Message-ID: <87390kv9z2.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <87a9uvv6ng.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87bof9s7cl.fsf@spindle.srvr.nix> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1352359179 3461 80.91.229.3 (8 Nov 2012 07:19:39 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2012 07:19:39 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Emacs development discussions , Daniel Hackney , Dani Moncayo To: Nix Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Nov 08 08:19:48 2012 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1TWMOs-0003Kc-0h for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 08 Nov 2012 08:19:42 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:42157 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TWMOi-000086-UR for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 08 Nov 2012 02:19:32 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:45780) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TWMOg-00007o-5t for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 08 Nov 2012 02:19:31 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TWMOf-0004s9-6K for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 08 Nov 2012 02:19:30 -0500 Original-Received: from mgmt2.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp ([130.158.97.224]:55606) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TWMOe-0004M8-Sa for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 08 Nov 2012 02:19:29 -0500 Original-Received: from uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp [130.158.99.156]) by mgmt2.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59F499708DE; Thu, 8 Nov 2012 16:18:25 +0900 (JST) Original-Received: by uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 1B9621A3271; Thu, 8 Nov 2012 16:18:25 +0900 (JST) In-Reply-To: <87bof9s7cl.fsf@spindle.srvr.nix> X-Mailer: VM undefined under 21.5 (beta32) "habanero" b0d40183ac79 XEmacs Lucid (x86_64-unknown-linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 130.158.97.224 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:154727 Archived-At: Nix writes: > FWIW the object I have always imagined is scrolling down is 'the user's > viewport'. You have imagination in places I don't even have places! :-) (In my mental model there's nothing in a hole that you can scroll.) > So 'scroll down' and 'scroll the text up' are synonymous, but the > latter is almost never used, since everyone's mental model these > days is of unchanging text and a freely moving viewport over the > top of it. And that's why it's so intuitive that Google Maps gives you a hand to grab the map with, and the map moves in the direction the hand goes? That's why I get vertigo when I drag the scrollbar thumb down and the text scrolls up? While I don't dispute that your model is what describe, and don't really have any ground to claim it's a minority view, I believe that "everybody's mental model" is rather more nuanced. Not to mention "plural". :-)