From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Nix Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Proposal to improve the nomenclature of scrolling directions Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2012 11:48:55 +0000 Message-ID: <87390hk7a0.fsf@spindle.srvr.nix> References: <87a9uvv6ng.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87bof9s7cl.fsf@spindle.srvr.nix> <874nl0ov8g.fsf@spindle.srvr.nix> <20635.63115.874182.168553@winooski.ccs.neu.edu> <87liecnelf.fsf@spindle.srvr.nix> <83390k0wgy.fsf@gnu.org> <83sj8jz0rs.fsf@gnu.org> <83txsxykcp.fsf@gnu.org> <509E3607.6070500@gmx.at> <83obj5y94x.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1352548156 23926 80.91.229.3 (10 Nov 2012 11:49:16 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2012 11:49:16 +0000 (UTC) Cc: dan@haxney.org, rms@gnu.org, eli@barzilay.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org, martin rudalics , monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, dmoncayo@gmail.com, stephen@xemacs.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Nov 10 12:49:24 2012 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1TX9Yy-0002hv-Hb for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 10 Nov 2012 12:49:24 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:46647 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TX9Yp-00052n-6g for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 10 Nov 2012 06:49:15 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:41900) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TX9Yk-00051q-Cc for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 10 Nov 2012 06:49:13 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TX9Yh-0004IW-9y for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 10 Nov 2012 06:49:10 -0500 Original-Received: from icebox.esperi.org.uk ([81.187.191.129]:33153 helo=mail.esperi.org.uk) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TX9Ya-0003zP-2q; Sat, 10 Nov 2012 06:49:00 -0500 Original-Received: from spindle.srvr.nix (nix@spindle.srvr.nix [192.168.14.15]) by mail.esperi.org.uk (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id qAABmt5G026393; Sat, 10 Nov 2012 11:48:55 GMT Emacs: the only text editor known to get indigestion. In-Reply-To: <83obj5y94x.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sat, 10 Nov 2012 13:45:02 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) X-DCC-x.dcc-servers-Metrics: spindle 104; Body=9 Fuz1=9 Fuz2=9 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 81.187.191.129 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:154794 Archived-At: On 10 Nov 2012, Eli Zaretskii verbalised: >> Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2012 12:09:59 +0100 >> From: martin rudalics >> CC: rms@gnu.org, dan@haxney.org, eli@barzilay.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org, >> nix@esperi.org.uk, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, dmoncayo@gmail.com, >> stephen@xemacs.org >> >> > Meanwhile, it turned out that what's requested is something else: when >> > the user or a Lisp program deliberately scrolls the text, leave point >> > where it was, instead of moving it to be visible in the new contents >> > of the window. This would need changes to window-scrolling code in >> > window.c, to avoid moving point. >> >> Not necessarily. We can always move point lazily, that is, whenever it >> is requested. > > That requires changes to window-scrolling functions, since currently > they do move point, and they do it non-lazily. See > window_scroll_pixel_based, where it calls SET_PT_BOTH etc. Well, yes. That's the whole reason we started talking about it when we were talking about scroll-in-place, which wraps the window-scrolling functions :) > And what does "whenever it is requested" means, anyway, in practical > terms? Those "other editors" that allow point to stay out of the > window will scroll the display back to show point when some command is > invoked that modifies the buffer text. Exactly that. > Given that the modification > commands don't require moving point, and C-v/M-v won't either (as this > is the main justification for the feature we are discussing), what > will? Normally, in the Other Editors, PgUp/PgDn do move point: it's things like scrolling using the scroll bars that does not. I'm not sure this is so useful in Emacs -- when was the last time you used the scroll bars? When was the last time you noticed they existed? I could have had this feature on for the last six months and never triggered it once. :) -- NULL && (void)