From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Bastien Subject: Re: (no subject) Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2013 15:09:37 +0100 Message-ID: <8738w4y89q.fsf@bzg.ath.cx> References: <87ip5199x7.fsf@bzg.ath.cx> <87r4jpk4mp.fsf@lapcat.tftorrey.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Return-path: Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:40442) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UEKT9-0005QA-Vd for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sat, 09 Mar 2013 09:09:56 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UEKSy-00007z-MH for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sat, 09 Mar 2013 09:09:51 -0500 Received: from mail-wg0-f52.google.com ([74.125.82.52]:42193) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UEKSy-00007u-Go for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sat, 09 Mar 2013 09:09:40 -0500 Received: by mail-wg0-f52.google.com with SMTP id 12so3589174wgh.7 for ; Sat, 09 Mar 2013 06:09:39 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <87r4jpk4mp.fsf@lapcat.tftorrey.com> (T. F. Torrey's message of "Fri, 08 Mar 2013 13:39:42 -0700") List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org To: "T.F. Torrey" Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Hi Terry, I hear you. I completely agree that Org should not be less flexible than it has been so far. At least not for very good reasons, shared by both the developers and the users. IOW: ease of maintainance and code consistency should not let us introduce rigidity for the users. Let's focus on the regressions and let's try to fix the ones that we can fix. As discussions have shown so far, Nicolas holds the keys when it comes to honoring Org's consistency regarding its syntax -- the document he wrote will help us all to speak about the same syntax and rules. But as you may have felt, I'm more on the "user conveniency" side, even if we need to sacrifice some consistency. There is a balance here, and I hope we keep a good one. So as I said: let's focus on what you perceive as regressions wrt what Org allows. The subject of this thread does not fall in this category: headlines have always been starting with stars, there is no regression here. On the contrary: a few years ago, we had no answer to this FAQ, now we can help users with several solution when the problem is aesthetic. Finally, I agree with Suvayu that the problem *is* mostly aesthetic, so the solutions we provide are enough (i.e., the FAQ, org-bullets.el in contrib/.) The question is rather whether we should have an Org option in core to allow users to tweak the appearance of the stars: my answer here is "no", because I don't see why users would stop here. Once we offer such an option for headlines, why not for comments and other characters with a syntactic role? (I replied a question on stackoverflow on how to use "%" instead of "#" for comments...) Anyway -- Org still stands on the side of users' freedom, let's fix the real regressions. Thanks! -- Bastien