From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Karl Fogel Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: On the subject of Git, Bazaar, and the future of Emacs development Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2013 16:34:31 -0500 Message-ID: <8738v75me0.fsf@floss.red-bean.com> References: <20130401202613.0b4201e3@anarchist> <87li91nmhp.fsf@gnu.org> <87ip45hseu.fsf@gmail.com> <87a9pg7mxg.fsf@floss.red-bean.com> Reply-To: Karl Fogel NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1365024894 14582 80.91.229.3 (3 Apr 2013 21:34:54 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2013 21:34:54 +0000 (UTC) Cc: jay.p.belanger@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Richard Stallman Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Apr 03 23:35:18 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1UNVKs-0007e9-3E for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 03 Apr 2013 23:35:14 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:49027 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UNVKT-0001QA-Bu for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 03 Apr 2013 17:34:49 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:55208) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UNVKM-0001OX-BS for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 03 Apr 2013 17:34:47 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UNVKG-0001TD-EV for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 03 Apr 2013 17:34:42 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-ob0-x22c.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4003:c01::22c]:42997) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UNVKG-0001Sx-9q; Wed, 03 Apr 2013 17:34:36 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-ob0-f172.google.com with SMTP id tb18so1914331obb.31 for ; Wed, 03 Apr 2013 14:34:35 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=x-received:sender:from:to:cc:subject:references:reply-to:date :in-reply-to:message-id:user-agent:mime-version:content-type; bh=9nqQAf8meV9348wXcVxx4DHVmL9BSfICgLahXssKMjk=; b=QzLc1/zm1AA442ixy41aTLVYBomoW7EPBzYuuYwXyXtZK82v8bGeqq0p7r5d40SgQ7 wUusqVJ+ey/zFpCIttmxAkMeo1UEePW5ocKqdvkLyIHbWs9/BaPJ1Maq/O2WpgllMy8P ljblfBP1ZZvhz8XcOdsrIHMvDUS1oWojXRXnMYEM79i4uEWXQ5L7kS2disoaNWuMH/de 2GpYGxds8PDlDOdG1lOyAfdTS7bAn08clvCoI0jmZQ/B5JeLnahxpZvToVRvP+/whdja VjN2y5FT8AtHGEZjtfvV8ZNHDNfeJRW82vgdcOoJ88OvlHvB7fKeHqI18Ci8sOtfwsNw A33g== X-Received: by 10.60.2.164 with SMTP id 4mr2234531oev.85.1365024875472; Wed, 03 Apr 2013 14:34:35 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from floss.red-bean.com ([184.78.110.124]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id ad19sm3809166oec.0.2013.04.03.14.34.33 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 03 Apr 2013 14:34:34 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: (Richard Stallman's message of "Wed, 03 Apr 2013 14:07:56 -0400") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:4003:c01::22c X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:158628 Archived-At: Richard Stallman writes: >Making a program GNU software means that its developers and the GNU >project agree that "This program is part of the GNU project, released >under the aegis of GNU"--and say so in the program. > >This means that we normally put the program on ftp.gnu.org (although >we can instead refer to your choice of ftp site, as long as it allows >connections from anyone anywhere). > >This means that the official site for the program should be on >www.gnu.org, specifically in /software/PROGRAMNAME. Whenever you give >out the URL for the package home page, you would give this address. >It is ok to use another site for secondary topics, such as pages meant >for people helping develop the package, and for running data bases. >(We can make an exception and put the web pages somewhere else if >there is a really pressing reason.) Bazaar's home page is http://bazaar.canonical.com/. This is what the "Home Page" link from https://launchpad.net/bzr says (i.e., from the community's accepted development home page). The README [1] at the top of the Bazaar source does not reference gnu.org at all, let alone "http://www.gnu.org/software/bazaar". The README's recommended download link and documentation links are all at canonical.com. In fact, if you browse to http://www.gnu.org/software/bazaar, it redirects you to http://bazaar.canonical.com/en/. Actually, it first redirects you to http://bazaar-vcs.org/, via a refresh: but bazaar-vcs.org now redirects to http://bazaar.canonical.com/en/, so that's where you end up. So I assume there was a "really pressing reason", because GNU is actively cooperating with Bazaar in having Bazaar's home page be somewhere other than gnu.org. What that reason is, I don't know. There are other respects in which Bazaar does not meet the normal standards you quoted, Richard, but I'm not bothering to list them here. They are easy to discover if you care to devote the investigation time, and if it's not worth your time it's certainly not worth mine. As far as I can tell, the only really meaningful way in which Bazaar is a "GNU project" is that GNU Emacs currently uses it. -Karl [1] http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~bzr-pqm/bzr/bzr.dev/view/head:/README