From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Michael Heerdegen Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: use of `user-error' Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2013 19:56:34 +0200 Message-ID: <8738u99q5p.fsf@web.de> References: <5DBEBF3431DC44C8A258E389611FF827@us.oracle.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1367258216 1738 80.91.229.3 (29 Apr 2013 17:56:56 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2013 17:56:56 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Drew Adams Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Apr 29 19:56:54 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1UWsJp-00084s-UL for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 29 Apr 2013 19:56:54 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:35852 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UWsJp-0004WN-KY for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 29 Apr 2013 13:56:53 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:44476) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UWsJk-0004Qq-84 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 29 Apr 2013 13:56:50 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UWsJg-0006Kq-NZ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 29 Apr 2013 13:56:48 -0400 Original-Received: from mout.web.de ([212.227.17.11]:65523) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UWsJg-0006KY-Ev for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 29 Apr 2013 13:56:44 -0400 Original-Received: from drachen.dragon ([82.113.121.91]) by smtp.web.de (mrweb101) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0MLPaA-1UWKLo0qXq-000614; Mon, 29 Apr 2013 19:56:43 +0200 Mail-Followup-To: Drew Adams , In-Reply-To: <5DBEBF3431DC44C8A258E389611FF827@us.oracle.com> (Drew Adams's message of "Thu, 7 Mar 2013 08:36:25 -0800") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) X-Provags-ID: V02:K0:dJzIIq8XaxdyfFU158KWGekIQeKrY9Ox6OXe2LfI/I2 cy1V+8ED+x3ihODdtxf9dJxZ9vkk/dxW/WzxWOZUTv6oNXszQq OlcdFpvExA8y6wPhATaMUhrJvXtUt2VF16J+PjR+FnpilVnde5 sRXmVEv1ATj08xZPhNM4Vr5cLa60pJm8vMGq1qAzL5jBDjCN9z czLJ+24DDDvIkSMFjAgD4wJlUABeBB5C7V36lOuqAI= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] X-Received-From: 212.227.17.11 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:159218 Archived-At: Hi, I really would like to discuss these questions raised by Drew (see at the bottom, shortened!). I would love to have `debug-on-error' bound to t all the time, to get an immediate backtrace of errors that happen very rarely and are hard to reproduce. But getting a popped up debugger every time I hit a wrong key or did something obviously wrong by accident is a pain in the ass. So, can we try to substitute the appropriate occurrences of `error' by `user-error', or are there any things that prevent us from doing that? Thanks, Michael. > 1. I see many places in the trunk source code where `error' is used > instead of `user-error' and where I would naively expect the latter to > be used. > > Is this because most occurrences of `error' have simply not yet been > updated to `user-error', or am I misunderstanding what `user-error' is > for? [...] > 2. When `user-error' is used, a user will not get a backtrace, even > with non-nil `debug-on-error'. > > For a developer to request that a user obtain a backtrace in such a > case, it seems that s?he must now ask the user to also customize > debug-ignored-errors' to remove `user-error' from the value, in > addition to turning on `debug-on-error'. > > That is a bit of bother to explain and do. Is there a simpler > approach? [...] > 3. 3rd-party developers often look to the Emacs source code as a > guideline for new things like this. [...]