From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Stephen J. Turnbull" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: is undefined Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2014 10:40:31 +0900 Message-ID: <8738i8idbk.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <532EC7DB.1080003@dancol.org> <20140323.124443.497781382.wl@gnu.org> <532ECA8F.60903@dancol.org> <20140323.125735.293642042.wl@gnu.org> <532ECF23.3010706@dancol.org> <532EF3C8.3070906@dancol.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1395625309 22552 80.91.229.3 (24 Mar 2014 01:41:49 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2014 01:41:49 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Barry Fishman Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Mar 24 02:41:59 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1WRttn-00083R-Aj for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 24 Mar 2014 02:41:59 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:34101 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WRttm-00053O-Vw for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 23 Mar 2014 21:41:58 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:44915) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WRttd-0004ob-O6 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 23 Mar 2014 21:41:56 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WRttT-0006wK-9e for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 23 Mar 2014 21:41:49 -0400 Original-Received: from mgmt2.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp ([130.158.97.224]:50786) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WRttS-0006lB-Vt for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 23 Mar 2014 21:41:39 -0400 Original-Received: from uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp [130.158.99.156]) by mgmt2.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4723D970902; Mon, 24 Mar 2014 10:40:31 +0900 (JST) Original-Received: by uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 359DD1A28DC; Mon, 24 Mar 2014 10:40:31 +0900 (JST) In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: VM undefined under 21.5 (beta34) "kale" 2a0f42961ed4 XEmacs Lucid (x86_64-unknown-linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 130.158.97.224 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:170892 Archived-At: Barry Fishman writes: > But that environment does not work. True, for the moment. > If the choice is to figure out how to modify your environment > variables before entering Emacs, or have Emacs just work, I choose > the latter. Unfortunately, that is not the choice. We have no choice but to prepare to defend ourselves for some time: we are under attack by the slings and arrows of outrageous IM developers. For reasons I don't understand, the Linux[1], X11, and generic-IM communities have chosen to repeatedly change keyboard handling in backward-incompatible ways. From what I hear from Ubuntu users, at least generic-IM still doesn't have it right. So we may suffer another such attack in the not so distant future (due to what Jamie calls the "CADT syndrome" ). > Either way it is a gross hack. Precisely. If you have an up-to-date environment, a patched Emacs will work without the hack. This *should* remain true indefinitely, modulo the aforementioned slings and arrows. There's no guarantee with the hack, and the hack *will* break something else for some people. Footnotes: [1] If you're Gibozing, Richard, indeed I do mean the kernel development community.