From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: More metaproblem Date: Sat, 06 Dec 2014 12:58:46 +0100 Organization: Organization?!? Message-ID: <87388touq1.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> References: <83egsf3yci.fsf@gnu.org> <87iohq6nvn.fsf@ktab.red-bean.com> <83mw722eit.fsf@gnu.org> <87egse56hb.fsf@ktab.red-bean.com> <87oarhzt87.fsf@ktab.red-bean.com> <20141205222416.GH7784@thyrsus.com> <834mt93d4k.fsf@gnu.org> <20141206045851.GA14890@thyrsus.com> <83sigt1ax1.fsf@gnu.org> <20141206113557.GF19750@thyrsus.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1417867175 2818 80.91.229.3 (6 Dec 2014 11:59:35 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2014 11:59:35 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Dec 06 12:59:28 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1XxE1I-0002WW-54 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 06 Dec 2014 12:59:28 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:54142 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XxE1H-0000ku-P5 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 06 Dec 2014 06:59:27 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:53672) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XxE0y-0000kn-Hy for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 06 Dec 2014 06:59:14 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XxE0t-0006rn-2U for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 06 Dec 2014 06:59:08 -0500 Original-Received: from plane.gmane.org ([80.91.229.3]:35456) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XxE0s-0006rY-SI for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 06 Dec 2014 06:59:03 -0500 Original-Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1XxE0o-0002JD-NM for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 06 Dec 2014 12:58:58 +0100 Original-Received: from x2f51fab.dyn.telefonica.de ([2.245.31.171]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sat, 06 Dec 2014 12:58:58 +0100 Original-Received: from dak by x2f51fab.dyn.telefonica.de with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sat, 06 Dec 2014 12:58:58 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 36 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: x2f51fab.dyn.telefonica.de X-Face: 2FEFf>]>q>2iw=B6, xrUubRI>pR&Ml9=ao@P@i)L:\urd*t9M~y1^:+Y]'C0~{mAl`oQuAl \!3KEIp?*w`|bL5qr,H)LFO6Q=qx~iH4DN; i"; /yuIsqbLLCh/!U#X[S~(5eZ41to5f%E@'ELIi$t^ Vc\LWP@J5p^rst0+('>Er0=^1{]M9!p?&:\z]|;&=NP3AhB!B_bi^]Pfkw User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:ZkNGQsEMtgUH/Ghfr0c5bnJtz8Q= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 80.91.229.3 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:179157 Archived-At: "Eric S. Raymond" writes: > Eli Zaretskii : >> I challenge you to ask and then post the results here, including >> similar results for other Free Software projects. > > Wow. You are truly a *master* of subtle obstructionism. The second > clause in that sentence was a work of art, leaving you wiggle room to > disregard any survey numbers I might to bring back on grounds of > insufficient breadth of sample. And camouflaging this maneuver as an > appeal to scientific objectivity - genius, sheer genius! > > Why, if I were a more naive person, I might have immediately gone > beavering off to #emacs, collected several hundred expressions of > frustration, and brought them back here only to have them > high-handedly dismissed. > > That general tactic of "I will disregard you until you put in an > amount of work I have pre-defined to be effectively impossible", > yes. An old favorite on this list, a hardy perennial. Very effective > for resisting any kind of innovation. > > This is how Emacs dies. Not with a bang, but with a whimper. More like the way in which this thread dies. In a large billow of smokescreen masking a non-glamorous exit. Let me quote Lichtenberg: "Ein Buch ist ein Spiegel: wenn ein Affe hineinsieht, so kann kein Apostel herausgucken." (a book is a mirror: when a monkey gazes into it, no apostle will be looking back from it). You'll find that this aphorism is somewhat applicable to the hostility of mailing lists. -- David Kastrup