From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stephen Berman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#22038: 25.1.50; Character folding issues with isearch Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2015 19:26:20 +0100 Message-ID: <8737vqkmk3.fsf@gmx.net> References: <87fuzqkszp.fsf@gmx.net> <83egfaoz7b.fsf@gnu.org> <877fl2kq1u.fsf@gmx.net> <83bnaeowdx.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1448735253 22558 80.91.229.3 (28 Nov 2015 18:27:33 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2015 18:27:33 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 22038@debbugs.gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Nov 28 19:27:12 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1a2kDD-0001hu-Tx for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 28 Nov 2015 19:27:08 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:33356 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1a2kDH-0006Fr-2Q for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 28 Nov 2015 13:27:11 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:32789) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1a2kDD-0006Fl-9O for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 28 Nov 2015 13:27:08 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1a2kD8-0001PN-9K for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 28 Nov 2015 13:27:07 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.43]:40428) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1a2kD8-0001PG-5U for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 28 Nov 2015 13:27:02 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1a2kD7-0004hv-Us for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 28 Nov 2015 13:27:02 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Stephen Berman Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2015 18:27:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 22038 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 22038-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B22038.144873519018020 (code B ref 22038); Sat, 28 Nov 2015 18:27:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 22038) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Nov 2015 18:26:30 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58369 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1a2kCb-0004gZ-IB for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 28 Nov 2015 13:26:29 -0500 Original-Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.15.15]:60116) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1a2kCZ-0004gA-Kx for 22038@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 28 Nov 2015 13:26:28 -0500 Original-Received: from rosalinde ([89.245.125.176]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx001) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0LwJRe-1aNwvL0AWM-0184in; Sat, 28 Nov 2015 19:26:21 +0100 In-Reply-To: <83bnaeowdx.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sat, 28 Nov 2015 19:40:26 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.1.50 (gnu/linux) X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:L6CWh5ZljTAX9JKTHY6Mm/Ohyw512BUcgk3Ge66e5lqlXYcqcBI AW2v5YD+la4fQoMRC2RTAyTxbBXtO/Ow6QfsVJaJtakQ15YP3ATc4gFqGyfDJEyZEdW6e4s T+BDDxLWe9tklejsQ5WjrX7c4C1TYVqWME5mE86cmDqdAHqOjesIL8S2CizWH8F+MEUeG5a M32HhAFWadUHPVxKoJk/A== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:jvjjZ+YHrCk=:cOcrKf+U41SKCVq49v2A/S qEI+GLbe1UNTd1vLiWkPyDaX7oHmsh5KqPmigxTrmlHKgGTPYdDi7d8jbrO6NpDACS6p2C17I ODFT58lx/4jYtK1jQySHhlUn1keptdTLTNx7ykeeUHQqCoJx+lNBqguPaKDXUHUxD6Puvf91O a6g8B+iIz+7TIm8qjOPjm3axKl2jmtK42G0w+SPHtawYKSaWl5elc42Mt8aCBcFU4GRIkGro7 d/mw0qEJuu6D2Sw0qwma9UH9OEdXqdWk/0gLI2Qpkx/IJvegOC9wxBHggxAgMIM6UIH7HJRat pscCLrHr9QN5ZYIxeNIVoJeAOVO7yWbDHfDIu9OwVrpuqXVv6l1kfXmLE2XLVohsO7GOiJ19d 2iE+/hTqcKAavGDdStFt0aXpag9K73TFTmAsfZLfn59mWy0996ponFpvS85W0tSgu2gNHtTlY mPPCfch4+qYdjBFldEMTELPbEAANfu/sGalXL4oPKaSKeZhcOjt+L9khd40zHHpQFAKWX6Swm j2IR8VVaY84lTK+csfuMUl6CUH39bzPPr1bwu5Yh92nTGd9ujKIf0zOGVPd1/zsFmO93xGSTf 6SapK5qU01/tB6qLX99ZTu46ne7E/NAJTAvTEWfp8tcmk0HI9Gb++Xu+iSOdz9oI09cziMwVY aFDW+J+36HZQjausLW4VAl+RqS/Z2luI73Qipat0pWh61hoahNgeMPsK+1ru5aZ9/GEimZhEA S+POZ6jlvr3S0Fo1nayVMbLFf+yBvhloQyawjKQo1K1BewAwU0mR4S9JPxWGVvGUpXFzyz5X X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 208.118.235.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:109378 Archived-At: On Sat, 28 Nov 2015 19:40:26 +0200 Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> From: Stephen Berman >> Cc: 22038@debbugs.gnu.org >> Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2015 18:10:53 +0100 >>=20 >> > (That's the only way I could parse "multiple characters matching a >> > single string".) We will have that, but it won't allow "ss" to match >> > "=C3=9F", unless you customize character-fold-table to include that. = The >> > reason is that "=C3=9F" doesn't have any decompositions in the Unicode >> > database, so the default character-fold-table doesn't include any >> > expansions for it. >>=20 >> This suggests to me that basing character folding solely on character >> decomposition is insufficient. From a user's point of view I see no >> reason why the search string "a" under character-folding matches "=C3=A4= " but >> not e.g. "=C3=A6". Requiring a customization to get the latter strikes = me as >> a user-unfriendly crutch to work around a deficient implementation. (I >> don't know if it's easy to improve, I'm just giving my impression as a >> user.) > > Easiness is not the most important issue here: there's a more basic > problem involved. Both "=C3=9F" vs "ss" and "=C3=A6" vs "a" (or "ae") are > language-specific: they are only valid matches in the context of > specific languages. AFAIU, that is why they are not in the Unicode > database. And we don't yet have language-specific text processing > capabilities and infrastructure (well, string-collate-lessp and > string-collate-equalp are a beginning, but only that). So allowing > those by default risk running afoul of what users want. I'm not sure what you mean by "only valid matches in the context of specific languages", but it sounds like what Per Starb=C3=A4ck said about "= =C3=A4" being considered a completely separate character from "a" in Swedish, unlike in German. Yet if this is a language-specific difference, Emacs doesn't respect it by default, since "a" does match "=C3=A4" under character-folding. (Or does it fail to do so when current-language-environment is Swedish? I suspect it doesn't.) But I know nothing about the Unicode specifications; maybe you are referring to a more subtle issue, which may be unrelated to my point, which is simply that I think it should be just as convenient for a user whose keyboard may lack "=C3=9F" or "=C3=A6" to match these characters by searching with "s" or "a" (or "e" or "ae") as it is to match "=EF=AC=80" by searching with "f". This is not a language-specific issue AFAICS. Steve Berman