From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Karl Fogel Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Seeking a "Patch Champion" Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 13:11:04 -0500 Message-ID: <8737q9h83r.fsf@red-bean.com> References: Reply-To: Karl Fogel NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1461607902 12981 80.91.229.3 (25 Apr 2016 18:11:42 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 18:11:42 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Apr 25 20:11:35 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1aukys-00057t-VJ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 25 Apr 2016 20:11:35 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:33181 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aukys-00023C-4S for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 25 Apr 2016 14:11:34 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:51273) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aukyY-0001sQ-2K for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 25 Apr 2016 14:11:18 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aukyT-0004qg-KZ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 25 Apr 2016 14:11:13 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-io0-x22f.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4001:c06::22f]:34770) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aukyT-0004oj-B6 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 25 Apr 2016 14:11:09 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-io0-x22f.google.com with SMTP id 2so192445854ioy.1 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2016 11:11:07 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=sender:from:to:cc:subject:references:reply-to:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version; bh=ZdiK9d2tR/RStTZNaGftLfVm7NvG7vRko4Mq4Wm5UtE=; b=EtX0cVHmW2g6206ZfdckamudKEJ01LTuVJd8cZxoUaUf8ndzMpBZI9o/Qi31lpnalu 1FQQto6kNWDX1nOR12/IdCjQLj/PcZjcEhldCwLbHWLl+V5R8k/muf+Kv73niS2XhiRB tLVPUeUVecTmvWmaMILj/kriTB9IwXNJoZMiCCfMoPADDLu1MrVpW/XuaKwCRHcTm4xD EO2ISIxZR098Nd6fqsIJD0JFmrfUnLKU9+ojAJw3f2il3xetHnVmjwq8n+O/zYHbk/ZU 3yKM52I4lje653Q/Q/Nw5O9BbiIGIK0U4u2+4uSJ7xsPj/0MRzaPUFxHV+nNc4hCLkWl U9Fw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:from:to:cc:subject:references:reply-to :date:in-reply-to:message-id:user-agent:mime-version; bh=ZdiK9d2tR/RStTZNaGftLfVm7NvG7vRko4Mq4Wm5UtE=; b=ZJMiE/U2ftrMQ8wFt1XhhPVnYvl8jsvSrxXAmxhT4FzA9mh1HvwzXV5r8F9CSwYsc6 dX+TcovVYnuc0iV0TC11MVPUBWvfmd8tWBisym65D7SUjGT5PSiINngD0zzMMba1oq4u Uv9k4276LmolKWftgHi9EU/gwRx1cx86qBPvylTVc5otwrCPceTgvz4fi9r+Hv8aaqqf MCZXly4X9P1clzHDMhjwWFERpKShX4C5V3aGf93HdW/84DxbSK3hKLMXni5zaReK9sJv DGo8rXWbNlQENKr/kiOHTMlKkNEiveawxPwFj5WV5Tzkd6ZA8q/DgKBsQcmOuEduoLzE akMg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOPr4FWVIGOBFP8PaBzk868hlVjgMsQs3oIgzcjxq7+srkX1VSEeRxoiWPiB5NxlQ4X7jg== X-Received: by 10.107.31.15 with SMTP id f15mr41854602iof.18.1461607867057; Mon, 25 Apr 2016 11:11:07 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from floss (74-92-190-114-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net. [74.92.190.114]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id zd17sm6632462igc.8.2016.04.25.11.11.04 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 25 Apr 2016 11:11:04 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: (Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen's message of "Mon, 25 Apr 2016 18:40:15 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.1.50 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:4001:c06::22f X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:203298 Archived-At: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen writes: >I'm afraid I don't think this is likely to help much. Since it's not >hooked up to the bug tracker, the list of patches on that site will just >grow increasingly outdated. Having somebody herd a patch after it's >already been applied is a waste of everybody's time. Just having something that auto-detects all the patches on the mailing list, so there's an easy, "one-stop-shopping" place to find them, could help al ot. Once the Patch Champion knows that a patch is being handled, or at least is being tracked in Debbugs, they can mark the patch as closed in Patchwork. Patchwork already natively has the states "Accepted", "Rejected", and "Under Review", and has an "archive" feature to get the patch out of the main list. We can either use those existing features/states, or perhaps make new states if needed -- see patchwork/fixtures/default_states.xml in the Patchwork source tree for more. >And I don't think adding yet another formality to the already pretty >complicated "apply this patch already" "work flow" (for want of a better >word) is the way to go. Well, I don't think John's proposal adds any burden to the patch *submitter*. Rather, he is proposing a role, Patch Champion, along with a tool (Patchwork) that makes that role feasible. The idea here is to reduce the burden on patch submitters, by having the project -- via the Patch Champion(s) -- keep better track of patches that have been posted on the mailing list. >But the lost patch situation in Emacs is a genuine problem, and one that >I think may be disencouraging new contributors. Here's what I think >should happen: > >1) Whenever somebody posts a patch to emacs-devel, and you don't feel >like applying it at once, tell them "send this via `M-x >report-emacs-bug', otherwise it'll never be applied". > >2) People interested in herding patches should start using debbugs-gnu. >I've now added another command to make this easier -- just say `M-x >debbugs-gnu-patches', and you'll get a nice list of all the bug reports >that contain patches. (Or at least the ones that have been marked as >such, but that's pretty much all of them...) These two ideas would add burden to the patch submitter, I think, unlike John's proposal. >And I think that debbugs*.el should be included in Emacs core, so that >we can get some traction here. Installing a package is apparently way >too much work for most people... No objection there, of course. (Confidential to John: you might be amused to see http://viewvc.red-bean.com/producingoss?view=revision&revision=2965 :-) The "Patch Champion" role seems to be what I call "Patch Manager" in that section.) Best regards, -Karl