From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Richard Lawrence Subject: Re: pandoc-style citations Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 08:58:28 -0700 Message-ID: <8737q54tej.fsf@aquinas.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-tickle-me> References: <572045B8.4070904@pressure.to> <87r3dr3zzk.fsf@aquinas.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-tickle-me> <572116EA.5000006@pressure.to> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Return-path: Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:51263) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1avoJq-0007UN-Js for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Thu, 28 Apr 2016 11:57:35 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1avoJl-0008FH-V8 for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Thu, 28 Apr 2016 11:57:34 -0400 Received: from mail-pa0-x231.google.com ([2607:f8b0:400e:c03::231]:33275) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1avoJl-0008Bn-L0 for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Thu, 28 Apr 2016 11:57:29 -0400 Received: by mail-pa0-x231.google.com with SMTP id zm5so37418700pac.0 for ; Thu, 28 Apr 2016 08:57:28 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <572116EA.5000006@pressure.to> List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" To: Alex Fenton , emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Hi Alex, Alex Fenton writes: >> Export is where efforts stalled last year. > > That's understandable, given that, as you say, it's a complex problem > given the range of citation styles and output formats. It's still a > shame given the work that you (pl.) have put into integrating citations > into the org parser & element tree so they are first class objects. > > I don't know whether it's conceivable that the data structures and > parsing could be integrated into org, with the (presumably) relatively > easy latex output, which I suspect is the commonest use case, and then > with some kind of "adequate" output for other targets (html, text, odt) > - perhaps an output that would require further post-processing by a > third-party tool such as citeproc or pandoc. > > Latex-outputters would be better off and other targets no worse off than > present, and it might act as a spur to solve the other target formats > one by one way. But I can see that this has been to some extent > considered and can also see the arguments against. Unfortunately, even the LaTeX case is not so easy unless you assume users are managing the bibliography database, and the mapping of citation keys into that database, themselves. It's easy to map the Org syntax to the LaTeX syntax if you can just pass the keys through, but that isn't a great assumption to make. And things are a lot more complicated once you have to worry about looking up the keys somewhere, generating an appropriate .bib file, etc. We will have to do this stuff for other backends anyway, so it seems sensible to do it for LaTeX too, but that's what makes the project so big (especially if we can't just pick one database format to support). Maybe you're right that a good first step would just be to generate LaTeX syntax, and just let users manage the bibliography database in whatever way works for them, without trying to interface with it. This could be done quickly -- indeed, I think it is already most of the way done. And as you say, that would go a long way toward meeting many people's needs. I hope I will have some time next week to look at this. I'll report back! Best, Richard