* hebrew: bold face odd when using the monospace font.
@ 2016-08-10 19:55 Uwe Brauer
2016-08-11 2:34 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-08-11 17:07 ` Yuri Khan
0 siblings, 2 replies; 15+ messages in thread
From: Uwe Brauer @ 2016-08-10 19:55 UTC (permalink / raw
To: emacs-devel
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 581 bytes --]
Hi
I usually use the following font
(custom-set-faces
'(default ((t (:family "DejaVu Sans Mono" :foundry "unknown" :slant
normal :weight normal :height 143 :width normal))))))
Which gives also nice results for Hebrew. However when I want to use the
bold face version, either in org mode as in
*שלום*
Or in latex via \textbf{שלום }
then the fold face is displayed very ugly, while the etl font behaves
as expected, I attach 2 sceenshot. How can I can change the behavior of
the bold face? Because via customize I don't see the hebrew fonts.
Uwe Brauer
[-- Attachment #2: etl.png --]
[-- Type: image/png, Size: 2372 bytes --]
[-- Attachment #3: mono.png --]
[-- Type: image/png, Size: 13005 bytes --]
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
* Re: hebrew: bold face odd when using the monospace font.
2016-08-10 19:55 hebrew: bold face odd when using the monospace font Uwe Brauer
@ 2016-08-11 2:34 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-08-11 16:02 ` Uwe Brauer
2016-08-11 17:07 ` Yuri Khan
1 sibling, 1 reply; 15+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2016-08-11 2:34 UTC (permalink / raw
To: Uwe Brauer; +Cc: emacs-devel
> From: Uwe Brauer <oub@mat.ucm.es>
> Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2016 19:55:41 +0000
>
> I usually use the following font
>
> (custom-set-faces
> '(default ((t (:family "DejaVu Sans Mono" :foundry "unknown" :slant
> normal :weight normal :height 143 :width normal))))))
>
> Which gives also nice results for Hebrew. However when I want to use the
> bold face version, either in org mode as in
>
> *שלום*
>
> Or in latex via \textbf{שלום }
> then the fold face is displayed very ugly, while the etl font behaves
> as expected, I attach 2 sceenshot. How can I can change the behavior of
> the bold face? Because via customize I don't see the hebrew fonts.
Find a better font, e.g. via S-mouse-1. Or use a facility outside of
Emacs to list the fonts installed on your system.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
* Re: hebrew: bold face odd when using the monospace font.
2016-08-11 2:34 ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2016-08-11 16:02 ` Uwe Brauer
2016-08-11 16:45 ` Eli Zaretskii
0 siblings, 1 reply; 15+ messages in thread
From: Uwe Brauer @ 2016-08-11 16:02 UTC (permalink / raw
To: emacs-devel
> Find a better font, e.g. via S-mouse-1. Or use a facility outside of
> Emacs to list the fonts installed on your system.
Ok so it is not possible to have the dejaVu monospace font for non bold face,
but a different font for bold face!
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
* Re: hebrew: bold face odd when using the monospace font.
2016-08-11 16:02 ` Uwe Brauer
@ 2016-08-11 16:45 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-08-11 20:17 ` Uwe Brauer
0 siblings, 1 reply; 15+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2016-08-11 16:45 UTC (permalink / raw
To: Uwe Brauer; +Cc: emacs-devel
> From: Uwe Brauer <oub@mat.ucm.es>
> Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2016 16:02:13 +0000
>
> Ok so it is not possible to have the dejaVu monospace font for non bold face,
> but a different font for bold face!
I don't know, I never tried that.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
* Re: hebrew: bold face odd when using the monospace font.
2016-08-10 19:55 hebrew: bold face odd when using the monospace font Uwe Brauer
2016-08-11 2:34 ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2016-08-11 17:07 ` Yuri Khan
2016-08-11 19:18 ` Uwe Brauer
1 sibling, 1 reply; 15+ messages in thread
From: Yuri Khan @ 2016-08-11 17:07 UTC (permalink / raw
To: Emacs developers
On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 2:55 AM, Uwe Brauer <oub@mat.ucm.es> wrote:
> I usually use the following font
>
> (custom-set-faces
> '(default ((t (:family "DejaVu Sans Mono" :foundry "unknown" :slant
> normal :weight normal :height 143 :width normal))))))
>
> Which gives also nice results for Hebrew.
I find that hard to believe. On my machine DejaVu Sans Mono does not
have Hebrew coverage. Pressing C-u C-x = on Hebrew text reveals that
Emacs substitutes DejaVu Sans, which does cover Hebrew and looks ok in
bold, but is not monospaced. Depending on your configuration, another
font may be substituted, possibly one that does not have a bold
weight.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
* Re: hebrew: bold face odd when using the monospace font.
2016-08-11 17:07 ` Yuri Khan
@ 2016-08-11 19:18 ` Uwe Brauer
2016-08-12 5:03 ` Yuri Khan
0 siblings, 1 reply; 15+ messages in thread
From: Uwe Brauer @ 2016-08-11 19:18 UTC (permalink / raw
To: emacs-devel
>>> "Yuri" == Yuri Khan <yuri.v.khan@gmail.com> writes:
> On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 2:55 AM, Uwe Brauer <oub@mat.ucm.es> wrote:
>> I usually use the following font
>>
>> (custom-set-faces
>> '(default ((t (:family "DejaVu Sans Mono" :foundry "unknown" :slant
>> normal :weight normal :height 143 :width normal))))))
>>
>> Which gives also nice results for Hebrew.
> I find that hard to believe. On my machine DejaVu Sans Mono does not
> have Hebrew coverage. Pressing C-u C-x = on Hebrew text reveals that
> Emacs substitutes DejaVu Sans, which does cover Hebrew and looks ok in
> bold, but is not monospaced. Depending on your configuration, another
> font may be substituted, possibly one that does not have a bold
> weight.
I am confused. What do you find hard to believe? My setting? The
screenshots?
Here is the result C-u C-x = on a hebrew mem sofit
position: 1282 of 1284 (100%), restriction: <64-1285>, column: 3
character: ם (displayed as ם) (codepoint 1501, #o2735, #x5dd)
preferred charset: unicode (Unicode (ISO10646))
code point in charset: 0x05DD
script: hebrew
syntax: w which means: word
category: .:Base, R:Right-to-left (strong)
to input: type "M" with hebrew-phonetic-qwerty input method
buffer code: #xD7 #x9D
file code: #xD7 #x9D (encoded by coding system utf-8-emacs)
display: by this font (glyph code)
xft:-unknown-DejaVu Sans-normal-normal-normal-*-19-*-*-*-*-0-iso10646-1 (#x533)
Character code properties: customize what to show
name: HEBREW LETTER FINAL MEM
general-category: Lo (Letter, Other)
decomposition: (1501) ('ם')
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
* Re: hebrew: bold face odd when using the monospace font.
2016-08-11 16:45 ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2016-08-11 20:17 ` Uwe Brauer
2016-08-12 6:35 ` Eli Zaretskii
0 siblings, 1 reply; 15+ messages in thread
From: Uwe Brauer @ 2016-08-11 20:17 UTC (permalink / raw
To: emacs-devel
>>> "Eli" == Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
>> From: Uwe Brauer <oub@mat.ucm.es>
>> Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2016 16:02:13 +0000
>>
>> Ok so it is not possible to have the dejaVu monospace font for non bold face,
>> but a different font for bold face!
> I don't know, I never tried that.
BTW the bold face font (trying out bold face tav)
seems to be
xft:-unknown-Linux Biolinum Keyboard O-bold-normal-normal-*-19-*-*-*-*-0-iso10646-1 (#x1D7)
Where it is configured in emacs that this font is used?
Here is the complete output
position: 36171 of 36172 (100%), column: 4
character: ת (displayed as ת) (codepoint 1514, #o2752, #x5ea)
preferred charset: unicode (Unicode (ISO10646))
code point in charset: 0x05EA
script: hebrew
syntax: w which means: word
category: .:Base, R:Right-to-left (strong)
to input: type "t" with hebrew-phonetic-qwerty input method
buffer code: #xD7 #xAA
file code: #xD7 #xAA (encoded by coding system utf-8-unix)
display: by this font (glyph code)
xft:-unknown-Linux Biolinum Keyboard O-bold-normal-normal-*-19-*-*-*-*-0-iso10646-1 (#x1D7)
Character code properties: customize what to show
name: HEBREW LETTER TAV
general-category: Lo (Letter, Other)
decomposition: (1514) ('ת')
There are text properties here:
face (bold)
font-lock-multiline t
fontified t
org-emphasis t
[back]
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
* Re: hebrew: bold face odd when using the monospace font.
2016-08-11 19:18 ` Uwe Brauer
@ 2016-08-12 5:03 ` Yuri Khan
2016-08-12 8:07 ` Uwe Brauer
0 siblings, 1 reply; 15+ messages in thread
From: Yuri Khan @ 2016-08-12 5:03 UTC (permalink / raw
To: Emacs developers
On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 2:18 AM, Uwe Brauer <oub@mat.ucm.es> wrote:
> > On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 2:55 AM, Uwe Brauer <oub@mat.ucm.es> wrote:
> >> I usually use the following font
> >>
> >> (custom-set-faces
> >> '(default ((t (:family "DejaVu Sans Mono" :foundry "unknown" :slant
> >> normal :weight normal :height 143 :width normal))))))
> >>
> >> Which gives also nice results for Hebrew.
>
> > I find that hard to believe. On my machine DejaVu Sans Mono does not
> > have Hebrew coverage. Pressing C-u C-x = on Hebrew text reveals that
> > Emacs substitutes DejaVu Sans, which does cover Hebrew and looks ok in
> > bold, but is not monospaced. Depending on your configuration, another
> > font may be substituted, possibly one that does not have a bold
> > weight.
>
> I am confused. What do you find hard to believe? My setting? The
> screenshots?
That it is your setting of DejaVu Sans Mono that gives you nice
results for Hebrew. Since this font has no Hebrew coverage, any
results for Hebrew, nice or otherwise, come from programs substituting
another font.
> Here is the result C-u C-x = on a hebrew mem sofit
>
> position: 1282 of 1284 (100%), restriction: <64-1285>, column: 3
> character: ם (displayed as ם) (codepoint 1501, #o2735, #x5dd)
[…]
> display: by this font (glyph code)
> xft:-unknown-DejaVu Sans-normal-normal-normal-*-19-*-*-*-*-0-iso10646-1 (#x533)
So here you are: you get DejaVu Sans, not DejaVu Sans Mono, for Hebrew.
Why Emacs gives you Linux Biolinum Keyboard O for bold is not clear.
You might need to read about fontsets:
https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/elisp/Fontsets.html#Fontsets
The unicode-fonts library provides a more user-friendly interface for
configuring font fallback, but may slow down Emacs startup
considerably:
https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/UnicodeFonts
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
* Re: hebrew: bold face odd when using the monospace font.
2016-08-11 20:17 ` Uwe Brauer
@ 2016-08-12 6:35 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-08-12 7:59 ` Andreas Schwab
0 siblings, 1 reply; 15+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2016-08-12 6:35 UTC (permalink / raw
To: Uwe Brauer; +Cc: emacs-devel
> From: Uwe Brauer <oub@mat.ucm.es>
> Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2016 20:17:41 +0000
>
> BTW the bold face font (trying out bold face tav)
> seems to be
> xft:-unknown-Linux Biolinum Keyboard O-bold-normal-normal-*-19-*-*-*-*-0-iso10646-1 (#x1D7)
>
> Where it is configured in emacs that this font is used?
In the fallback section of the default fontset. See the output of
describe-fontset. I'm guessing that Emacs uses the first font it
finds that claims support for iso10646-1 (a.k.a. "Unicode") character
set. If you don't like the results, you should either tailor your
fontset, or install/uninstall fonts to force Emacs DTRT.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
* Re: hebrew: bold face odd when using the monospace font.
2016-08-12 6:35 ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2016-08-12 7:59 ` Andreas Schwab
2016-08-12 8:12 ` Uwe Brauer
0 siblings, 1 reply; 15+ messages in thread
From: Andreas Schwab @ 2016-08-12 7:59 UTC (permalink / raw
To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: Uwe Brauer, emacs-devel
On Aug 12 2016, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:
> In the fallback section of the default fontset. See the output of
> describe-fontset. I'm guessing that Emacs uses the first font it
> finds that claims support for iso10646-1 (a.k.a. "Unicode") character
> set. If you don't like the results, you should either tailor your
> fontset, or install/uninstall fonts to force Emacs DTRT.
You don't have to uninstall the font, you can also ignore a font via
fontconfig (with <rejectfont>).
Andreas.
--
Andreas Schwab, schwab@linux-m68k.org
GPG Key fingerprint = 58CA 54C7 6D53 942B 1756 01D3 44D5 214B 8276 4ED5
"And now for something completely different."
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
* Re: hebrew: bold face odd when using the monospace font.
2016-08-12 5:03 ` Yuri Khan
@ 2016-08-12 8:07 ` Uwe Brauer
2016-08-16 8:33 ` Yuri Khan
0 siblings, 1 reply; 15+ messages in thread
From: Uwe Brauer @ 2016-08-12 8:07 UTC (permalink / raw
To: emacs-devel
> On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 2:18 AM, Uwe Brauer <oub@mat.ucm.es> wrote:
> That it is your setting of DejaVu Sans Mono that gives you nice
> results for Hebrew. Since this font has no Hebrew coverage, any
> results for Hebrew, nice or otherwise, come from programs substituting
> another font.
> […]
> So here you are: you get DejaVu Sans, not DejaVu Sans Mono, for Hebrew.
Yep but strangely enough for no hebrew I obtain
,----
| position: 36166 of 36174 (100%), column: 0
| character: A (displayed as A) (codepoint 65, #o101, #x41)
| preferred charset: ascii (ASCII (ISO646 IRV))
| code point in charset: 0x41
| script: latin
| syntax: w which means: word
| category: .:Base, L:Left-to-right (strong), a:ASCII, l:Latin, r:Roman
| to input: type "C-x 8 RET 41" or "C-x 8 RET LATIN CAPITAL LETTER A"
| buffer code: #x41
| file code: #x41 (encoded by coding system utf-8-unix)
| display: by this font (glyph code)
| xft:-unknown-DejaVu Sans Mono-normal-normal-normal-*-19-*-*-*-m-0-iso10646-1 (#x24)
`----
> Why Emacs gives you Linux Biolinum Keyboard O for bold is not clear.
> You might need to read about fontsets:
> https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/elisp/Fontsets.html#Fontsets
thanks
> The unicode-fonts library provides a more user-friendly interface for
> configuring font fallback, but may slow down Emacs startup
> considerably:
> https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/UnicodeFonts
thanks
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
* Re: hebrew: bold face odd when using the monospace font.
2016-08-12 7:59 ` Andreas Schwab
@ 2016-08-12 8:12 ` Uwe Brauer
2016-08-12 9:23 ` Andreas Schwab
0 siblings, 1 reply; 15+ messages in thread
From: Uwe Brauer @ 2016-08-12 8:12 UTC (permalink / raw
To: Andreas Schwab; +Cc: Uwe Brauer, Eli Zaretskii, emacs-devel
> On Aug 12 2016, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:
> You don't have to uninstall the font, you can also ignore a font via
> fontconfig (with <rejectfont>).
My fontconfig Kubuntu 14.04) contains various programs such as fc-list
etc. Which of these you have in mind?
Uwe
> Andreas.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
* Re: hebrew: bold face odd when using the monospace font.
2016-08-12 8:12 ` Uwe Brauer
@ 2016-08-12 9:23 ` Andreas Schwab
2016-08-15 20:51 ` Uwe Brauer
0 siblings, 1 reply; 15+ messages in thread
From: Andreas Schwab @ 2016-08-12 9:23 UTC (permalink / raw
To: Uwe Brauer; +Cc: Eli Zaretskii, emacs-devel
On Aug 12 2016, Uwe Brauer <oub@mat.ucm.es> wrote:
> > On Aug 12 2016, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:
>
> > You don't have to uninstall the font, you can also ignore a font via
> > fontconfig (with <rejectfont>).
>
> My fontconfig Kubuntu 14.04) contains various programs such as fc-list
> etc. Which of these you have in mind?
See /etc/fonts/conf.d.
Andreas.
--
Andreas Schwab, schwab@linux-m68k.org
GPG Key fingerprint = 58CA 54C7 6D53 942B 1756 01D3 44D5 214B 8276 4ED5
"And now for something completely different."
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
* Re: hebrew: bold face odd when using the monospace font.
2016-08-12 9:23 ` Andreas Schwab
@ 2016-08-15 20:51 ` Uwe Brauer
0 siblings, 0 replies; 15+ messages in thread
From: Uwe Brauer @ 2016-08-15 20:51 UTC (permalink / raw
To: emacs-devel
>>> "Andreas" == Andreas Schwab <schwab@linux-m68k.org> writes:
> On Aug 12 2016, Uwe Brauer <oub@mat.ucm.es> wrote:
>> > On Aug 12 2016, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:
>>
>> > You don't have to uninstall the font, you can also ignore a font via
>> > fontconfig (with <rejectfont>).
>>
>> My fontconfig Kubuntu 14.04) contains various programs such as fc-list
>> etc. Which of these you have in mind?
> See /etc/fonts/conf.d.
I still don't get it
/etc/fonts
Contains
rwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4,0K jun 29 17:23 conf.avail
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4,0K jun 29 17:18 conf.d
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 5,4K jun 5 2014 fonts.conf
So I presume the file fonts.conf is what you meant,
but the file contains
DO NOT EDIT THIS FILE.
IT WILL BE REPLACED WHEN FONTCONFIG IS UPDATED.
LOCAL CHANGES BELONG IN 'local.conf'.
The intent of this standard configuration file is to be adequate for
most environments. If you have a reasonably normal environment and
have found problems with this configuration, they are probably
things that others will also want fixed. Please submit any
problems to the fontconfig bugzilla system located at fontconfig.org
Note that the normal 'make install' procedure for fontconfig is to
replace any existing fonts.conf file with the new version. Place
any local customizations in local.conf which this file references.
In any case I don't understand its syntax, could you give me an example
of how to exclude
xft:-unknown-Linux Biolinum Keyboard O-bold-normal-normal-*-19-*-*-*-*-0-iso10646-1 (#x1D7)
thanks
Uwe
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
* Re: hebrew: bold face odd when using the monospace font.
2016-08-12 8:07 ` Uwe Brauer
@ 2016-08-16 8:33 ` Yuri Khan
0 siblings, 0 replies; 15+ messages in thread
From: Yuri Khan @ 2016-08-16 8:33 UTC (permalink / raw
To: Emacs developers
On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 3:07 PM, Uwe Brauer <oub@mat.ucm.es> wrote:
> > So here you are: you get DejaVu Sans, not DejaVu Sans Mono, for Hebrew.
>
> Yep but strangely enough for no hebrew I obtain
>
> ,----
> | character: A (displayed as A) (codepoint 65, #o101, #x41)
> | display: by this font (glyph code)
> | xft:-unknown-DejaVu Sans Mono-normal-normal-normal-*-19-*-*-*-m-0-iso10646-1 (#x24)
> `----
Nothing strange here: DejaVu Sans Mono *does* cover Latin, so when you
ask for DejaVu Sans Mono, you get what you ask for.
On the other hand, with Hebrew, you ask for DejaVu Sans Mono, you get
another font that covers Hebrew. (The alternative would be that you
get exactly what you ask for and any characters that the font does not
cover would be displayed as empty squares, � replacement characters or
other unintelligible things.)
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2016-08-16 8:33 UTC | newest]
Thread overview: 15+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2016-08-10 19:55 hebrew: bold face odd when using the monospace font Uwe Brauer
2016-08-11 2:34 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-08-11 16:02 ` Uwe Brauer
2016-08-11 16:45 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-08-11 20:17 ` Uwe Brauer
2016-08-12 6:35 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-08-12 7:59 ` Andreas Schwab
2016-08-12 8:12 ` Uwe Brauer
2016-08-12 9:23 ` Andreas Schwab
2016-08-15 20:51 ` Uwe Brauer
2016-08-11 17:07 ` Yuri Khan
2016-08-11 19:18 ` Uwe Brauer
2016-08-12 5:03 ` Yuri Khan
2016-08-12 8:07 ` Uwe Brauer
2016-08-16 8:33 ` Yuri Khan
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