From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Thien-Thi Nguyen Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Proposals for fixing package-initialize Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2017 18:28:56 +0200 Message-ID: <873782whpz.fsf@zigzag> References: Reply-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1504542264 25462 195.159.176.226 (4 Sep 2017 16:24:24 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2017 16:24:24 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.0.50 (gnu/linux) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Sep 04 18:24:10 2017 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1douA8-00057g-Q2 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 04 Sep 2017 18:23:48 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:54807 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1douAF-0008Vh-Tj for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 04 Sep 2017 12:23:55 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:52930) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dou9b-0008VD-RB for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 04 Sep 2017 12:23:20 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dou9X-0002B2-4G for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 04 Sep 2017 12:23:15 -0400 Original-Received: from mail.agora-net.com ([67.59.132.6]:54620) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dou9W-0002AQ-W5 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 04 Sep 2017 12:23:11 -0400 Original-Received: from ttn by mail.agora-net.com with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1dou9V-0000e6-FJ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 04 Sep 2017 12:23:09 -0400 Original-Received: from ttn by zigzag.favinet with local (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1douFF-0003Ib-PO for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 04 Sep 2017 18:29:05 +0200 Mail-Followup-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org In-Reply-To: (Radon Rosborough's message of "Sun, 3 Sep 2017 22:31:57 -0700") X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: ttn@gnuvola.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on mail.agora-net.com); SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 67.59.132.6 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:217925 Archived-At: --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain () Radon Rosborough () Sun, 3 Sep 2017 22:31:57 -0700 This email is an attempt to present all the proposals that have been discussed, in an even-handed way, so that we can make a decision without everyone needing to have read the aforementioned 150 emails. Cool, thanks! I now feel less guilty skimming through that backlog. I appreciate the clear presentation style, too. ==> Proposal F: Use more declarative configuration Summary: - make it so that packages can be configured in a way that causes package-initialize to be called automatically Advantages: - would solve all the problems Disadvantages: - nobody has any idea how to do this - and it would probably take several years anyway This strikes me as the best long-term fix (i.e., defining a data format, thus giving space to various package manglers to bloom, wither and die around it, improving it as time goes on). It's hyperbole to say nobody has any idea, however -- there are several general text-oriented serialization formats that people have already defined (e.g., YAML, JSON, sexps). Any of these can be easily adapted to the package-metadata domain. Re time, granted, settling on a suitable filename extension might take years (i'll throw out ".epdef" for "Emacs package definition"), but i think a few weeks (months) of nailing down .epdef by one person (serial) would inspire very rapid (re-)development of programs afterwards (parallel) resulting in overall wall-time of much less than several years. Sez Perlis: We kid ourselves if we think that the ratio of procedure to data in an active data-base system can be made arbitrarily small or even kept small. so the trick for Someone will be to define ONLY a data format, and refrain from stepping into "an active data-base system" (as much as possible -- w/ Emacs, there be hooks a-lurking 'neath). -- Thien-Thi Nguyen ----------------------------------------------- (defun responsep (query) (pcase (context query) (`(technical ,ml) (correctp ml)) ...)) 748E A0E8 1CB8 A748 9BFA --------------------------------------- 6CE4 6703 2224 4C80 7502 --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlmtf0oACgkQZwMiJEyAdQJZhQCaAwiJtmddBzjc67hyTMjs54gd LUsAoKlCTU00C6ghC3jQWynwnDrixcX/ =kiQK -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=--