From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Michael Welsh Duggan Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Issues with quail.el Date: Sat, 12 May 2018 00:13:09 -0400 Message-ID: <8736yx4ilm.fsf@md5i.com> References: <20180505115357.daekqzkpg3565ztj@isis.luna> <878t8tcy8o.fsf@md5i.com> <20180510141234.tpj4vagod6bejmta@isis.luna> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1526098312 3382 195.159.176.226 (12 May 2018 04:11:52 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 12 May 2018 04:11:52 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.1 (gnu/linux) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat May 12 06:11:48 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fHLsq-0000lX-7v for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 12 May 2018 06:11:48 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:42754 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fHLuv-0003qx-F9 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 12 May 2018 00:13:57 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:55801) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fHLuF-0003fi-Hz for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 12 May 2018 00:13:16 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fHLuA-0003BQ-U6 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 12 May 2018 00:13:15 -0400 Original-Received: from md5i.com ([75.151.244.229]:60500) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fHLuA-0003BG-N7 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 12 May 2018 00:13:10 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=md5i.com; s=dkim; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID: In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Cc:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=JEIS7jG3guxgXQRHJwVPZ+LQ1vqozcCO1thua1+M2PA=; b=hwr/tR26QU5bgERT+hj0qiUFX6 lAn1/lLbaT2eoTRmIrS4KfIeV5CBcKJjnfLP54HJM7GB5IoKVtw6zQLLzBB4zdhm5g9ph/HDKNJLe GX/4SXRk0HT3iAGUO7C6Gny6/; Original-Received: from md5i by md5i.com with local (Exim 4.91) (envelope-from ) id 1fHLu9-0005oO-RL for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 12 May 2018 00:13:09 -0400 In-Reply-To: <20180510141234.tpj4vagod6bejmta@isis.luna> (Amit Ramon's message of "Thu, 10 May 2018 17:12:34 +0300") X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 75.151.244.229 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:225253 Archived-At: Amit Ramon writes: > Michael Welsh Duggan [2018-05-08 23:19 -0400]: > >>I'm not a quail expert, but I looked through a lot of the code recently >>to try to figure out how to do something else, so maybe I can figure out >>how to help here. > > Thanks, any help is appreciated. > >> >>> First issue >>> >>> Assume that the keyboard layout is set to "atari-german" and that the >>> input method is "Hebrew". When I type C-h I (thus invoking >>> "describe-input-method"), the drawing of the keyboard layout is >>> incorrect. The keys that appear in the shifted level, which should be, >>> in this input method, similar to those in the standard layout, are >>> actually taken from the current keyboard layout. >> >>Okay, let's verify some things. When I type >>`M-x quail-show-keyboard-layout RET atari-german RET', I get the >>following: >> >>Keyboard layout (keyboard type: atari-german) >> >> +----------------------------------------------------------------+ >> | 1! | 2" | 3=C2=A7 | 4$ | 5% | 6& | 7/ | 8( | 9) | 0=3D | =C3=9F? |= '` | #^ | >> +----------------------------------------------------------------+ >> | qQ | wW | eE | rR | tT | zZ | uU | iI | oO | pP | =C3=BC=C3=9C |= +* | >> +------------------------------------------------------------+ >> | aA | sS | dD | fF | gG | hH | jJ | kK | lL | =C3=B6=C3=96 | =C3= =A4=C3=84 | ~| | >> +--------------------------------------------------------------+ >> | <> | yY | xX | cC | vV | bB | nN | mM | ,; | .: | -_ | >> +------------------------------------------------------+ >> +-----------------------------+ >> | space bar | >> +-----------------------------+ >> >> >>Is this what you get as well? > > Yes. > >>Does this match your actual keyboard? > > No, but my actual keyboard isn't atari-german -- I gave it just as an > example. My physical keyboard is standard English QWERTY keyboard. On > my Linux system I setup a Dvorak layout. I made tests mostly with my > Dvorak setup[1] (there are footnotes at the end), but because Dvorak > keyboard layout is not one of Emacs' defined layouts I used > atari-german for the example. > >>> For example, the Hebrew letter TET is on the (standard) y key, and >>> pressing this key together with shift when Hebrew input method is >>> active should produce Y. This works fine when typing, but in the map >>> drawn by "describe-input-method" the letter that appears on this key >>> in the shifted state is Z, which is what this key does in >>> "atari-german" layout. There are some other keys not in the right >>> place - all those that in "atari-german" have a meaning that is >>> different than the one in the standard layout. >> >>Also to verify, the 'y' key is the one to diagonally down and to the >>right of the 'a' key? Like in the layout above? > > Yes. > >> When I try to recreate what you are showing, I get the following. >> Does this match? >> >> +----------------------------------------------------------------+ >> | 1! | 2" | 3=C2=A7 | 4$ | 5% | 6& | 7/ | 8( | 9) | 0( | =C3=9F? | '= ` | ;^ | >> +----------------------------------------------------------------+ >> | qQ | 'W | =D7=A7=E2=80=8EE | =D7=A8=E2=80=8ER | =D7=90=E2=80=8ET= | =D7=98=E2=80=8EZ | =D7=95=E2=80=8EU | =D7=9F=E2=80=8EI | =D7=9D=E2=80=8E= O | =D7=A4=E2=80=8EP | ]} | [{ | >> +------------------------------------------------------------+ >> | =D7=A9=E2=80=8EA | =D7=93=E2=80=8ES | =D7=92=E2=80=8ED | =D7=9B= =E2=80=8EF | =D7=A2=E2=80=8EG | =D7=99=E2=80=8EH | =D7=97=E2=80=8EJ | =D7= =9C=E2=80=8EK | =D7=9A=E2=80=8EL | =D7=A3=E2=80=8E=C3=96 | ,=C3=84 | ~| | >> +--------------------------------------------------------------+ >> | >< | =D7=96=E2=80=8EY | =D7=A1=E2=80=8EX | =D7=91=E2=80=8EC | =D7= =94=E2=80=8EV | =D7=A0=E2=80=8EB | =D7=9E=E2=80=8EN | =D7=A6=E2=80=8EM | = =D7=AA=E2=80=8E> | =D7=A5=E2=80=8E< | ._ | >> +------------------------------------------------------+ >> +-----------------------------+ >> | space bar | >> +-----------------------------+ >> > > Yes. > >>Finally, if it does match, what should it look like instead? > > This is what it should look like: > > +----------------------------------------------------------------+ > | 1! | 2@ | 3# | 4$ | 5% | 6^ | 7& | 8* | 9) | 0( | -_ | =3D+ | `~ | > +----------------------------------------------------------------+ > | /Q | 'W | =D7=A7=E2=80=8EE | =D7=A8=E2=80=8ER | =D7=90=E2=80=8ET = | =D7=98=E2=80=8EY | =D7=95=E2=80=8EU | =D7=9F=E2=80=8EI | =D7=9D=E2=80=8EO= | =D7=A4=E2=80=8EP | ]} | [{ | > +------------------------------------------------------------+ > | =D7=A9=E2=80=8EA | =D7=93=E2=80=8ES | =D7=92=E2=80=8ED | =D7=9B= =E2=80=8EF | =D7=A2=E2=80=8EG | =D7=99=E2=80=8EH | =D7=97=E2=80=8EJ | =D7= =9C=E2=80=8EK | =D7=9A=E2=80=8EL | =D7=A3=E2=80=8E: | ," | \| | > +-----------------------------------------------------------+ > | =D7=96=E2=80=8EZ | =D7=A1=E2=80=8EX | =D7=91=E2=80=8EC | =D7= =94=E2=80=8EV | =D7=A0=E2=80=8EB | =D7=9E=E2=80=8EN | =D7=A6=E2=80=8EM | = =D7=AA=E2=80=8E> | =D7=A5=E2=80=8E< | .? | > +-------------------------------------------------+ > +-----------------------------+ > | space bar | > +-----------------------------+ > > Most of the differences are in the first shift level. > > Note, for example, the location of the "Y" and "Z", and the two keys > right of the "L". This layout is the standard for a Hebrew keyboard > layout (the Israeli standard, at least), and this is what a Hebrew > writer would expect when Hebrew input method is set. (you can get it > simply if you don't change your keyboard layout -- assuming it is the > standard one -- and then set input method to Hebrew, and do C-h I.) > > The point is that *there are no problems with actual typing* -- you > press Shift with the key that has the "Z" in your drawing (to remove > any possible confusion, this is the key that is right below 6 and 7 > and on the center between them), and you'll get "Y". Strangely, though, that is not what I experience. Here are the unshifted keys for me, atari-german, hebrew input mode: =E2=80=8E=E2=80=AA+1234567890.(\ =E2=80=AD=D7=B3=D7=A7=D7=A8=D7=90=D7=96=D7=95=D7=9F=D7=9D=D7=A4][ =E2=80=AD=D7=A9=D7=93=D7=92=D7=9B=D7=A2=D7=99=D7=97=D7=9C=D7=9A>=3D =E2=80=AD=D7=98=D7=A1=D7=91=D7=94=D7=A0=D7=9E=D7=A6=D7=AA=D7=A5& and the shifted ones: \!@;$%~^*)?[| QWERTZUIOP}{ ASDFGHJKL<@ YXCVBNM><_ There are a few that don't match, but the Y and Z are not two of them. This is not the case for you? --=20 Michael Welsh Duggan (md5i@md5i.com)