From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: hw Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: delete-selection-mode as default Date: Sun, 09 Sep 2018 19:41:10 +0200 Organization: my virtual residence Message-ID: <8736uia7rd.fsf@toy.adminart.net> References: <0C11D648-213E-4BF1-9095-33A3E0D6DC85@gmail.com> <87bm98owuj.fsf@toy.adminart.net> <83tvn0rmns.fsf@gnu.org> <87k1nvbq17.fsf@toy.adminart.net> <1d78d575-245a-96c4-fdb2-e1a384fe4883@orcon.net.nz> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1536581714 9090 195.159.176.226 (10 Sep 2018 12:15:14 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2018 12:15:14 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.1 (gnu/linux) Cc: Eli Zaretskii , right.ho@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Phil Sainty Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Sep 10 14:15:10 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fzL5w-0002EB-BS for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 10 Sep 2018 14:15:08 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:51368 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fzL82-0006Zv-Ar for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 10 Sep 2018 08:17:18 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:48523) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fzL2v-00010y-AV for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 10 Sep 2018 08:12:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fzKyb-0001Db-TA for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 10 Sep 2018 08:07:34 -0400 Original-Received: from mo6-p00-ob.smtp.rzone.de ([2a01:238:20a:202:5300::2]:16772) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fzKyb-0001Av-MK; Mon, 10 Sep 2018 08:07:33 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1536581252; s=strato-dkim-0002; d=adminart.net; h=References:Message-ID:Date:In-Reply-To:Subject:Cc:To:From: X-RZG-CLASS-ID:X-RZG-AUTH:From:Subject:Sender; bh=shBDqDMk4kbAQttE771htx+QNf20fQL6rJ8u3qvtkVA=; b=AxFw2ZW6q3TBpJwsUbtEOnkNvxcgtsUS6zJAEQhN52QoIPigNmOvQ9LyGqbXK7ARCu hpKKVWz0u4XqToXSq8wXNl7GBdqUSUx4vdvn7aTFBck4s9Us+gvY+/uvf4XHn0gTEi7+ CmuaP7MwxcjPCb/59acMxACjDtqB7YYUg07aeToE3tebBVwQ0nxLYZRHY6LOx0J+ECgC lbY6uI3udFO3PyKOCx+yXWUoRzcdQLrspijJJYds8scpW3RM8F1v2gnD+WJTJN6bvkKy Fzf68thzMxj5mX4ja+PPnXSrsce0MxOB5g7Zq4e/TZfmhSXTFYGNuNk7Fj8eV2NK6tl1 HZKA== X-RZG-AUTH: ":O2kGeEG7b/pS1FS4THaxjVF9w0vVgfQ9xGcjwO5WMRo5c+h5ceMqQWZ3yrBp+AVdIIwXjneEe9k=" X-RZG-CLASS-ID: mo00 Original-Received: from himinbjorg.adminart.net by smtp.strato.de (RZmta 44.0 DYNA|AUTH) with ESMTPSA id e03b99u8AC7LGrt (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (curve secp521r1 with 521 ECDH bits, eq. 15360 bits RSA)) (Client did not present a certificate); Mon, 10 Sep 2018 14:07:21 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from toy.adminart.net ([192.168.3.55]) by himinbjorg.adminart.net with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1fzKyP-0000x5-1q; Mon, 10 Sep 2018 14:07:21 +0200 In-Reply-To: <1d78d575-245a-96c4-fdb2-e1a384fe4883@orcon.net.nz> (Phil Sainty's message of "Sun, 9 Sep 2018 13:15:33 +1200") X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2a01:238:20a:202:5300::2 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:229615 Archived-At: Phil Sainty writes: > On 09/09/18 11:27, hw wrote: >>> Is C-/ and C-_ one key or two? If two, then so it C-z; thus, Emacs is >>> not worse than other editors in this regard. >> >> On a German keyboard with default bindings, those are both 3 keys each, >> which are rather awkward to press: Shift+Control+7 and Shift+Control+-. > > That's unfortunate. Fortunately, MOTT a single undo or a few are sufficient. A few are still ok, quite a few sucks, one reason being that it's easy to hit the wrong key and screw up the undoing when you have to press C-x u so many times. > It's notable that of the CUA-style bindings, one can rebind C-z to > `undo' in Emacs without the same degree of conflict that the other CUA > keys introduce; so you might consider: > > (global-set-key (kbd "C-z") #'undo) > > C-z is `suspend-frame' by default (which makes complete sense when > Emacs is running in a terminal, so changing this default isn't an > option IMO), but it's a convenient key to *intentionally* re-purpose > if you know how to `suspend-frame' without it (n.b. C-x C-z is also > provided by default). Because it's such a fundamental behaviour, > AFAIK no other default keymaps touch this key sequence. > > Or you could pick any other convenient `undo' binding, of course > (but even then you might still change C-z. I use C-z as a prefix > key, with C-z C-z as `suspend-frame', which I find provides me with > a very useful additional prefix for custom bindings.) I could use C-v for undo. Too much customizing has the disadvantage of getting in trouble with not or differently customized Emacs`. Maybe I should look into a way to have all customization files Emacs needs on a web browser or the like so they can easily be accessed and used everywhere without having to have multiple copies in all places which then need to be kept in sync. I'm probably not the first one to have this idea ... Using git for this comes to mind, but it is horribly difficult to set up access to a git repo when users do not have ssh access to the machine. Emacs would have to clone the repo during startup to put all its files into place. But then, it could be done using a wrapper script that updates the repo and then starts Emacs. I'll give that some thought.