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Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2020 12:09:18 +0100 Message-ID: <87363ihtb5.fsf@gmail.com> References: <20200916094819.GB13405@tuxteam.de> <20200916102001.GC13405@tuxteam.de> <20200916105356.GD13405@tuxteam.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="28966"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: emacs-devel To: tomas@tuxteam.de Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Sep 16 13:10:03 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kIVK7-0007Qs-CP for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 16 Sep 2020 13:10:03 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:53418 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kIVK6-0005Yj-En for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 16 Sep 2020 07:10:02 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:44288) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kIVJU-00059U-V2 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 16 Sep 2020 07:09:24 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-wr1-x430.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::430]:35350) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kIVJT-0002lS-FT for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 16 Sep 2020 07:09:24 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-wr1-x430.google.com with SMTP id e16so6480460wrm.2 for ; Wed, 16 Sep 2020 04:09:22 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=qNBf408FFBTvQkkNwsnwP4yxqjli7rD3SFj0Bg4e3Bg=; b=AjfrRuvc5JWj9y6g2S6LWfUTZCOrzKC/oPCRrm8Vf63WRe82/WFdLkwebsdxkqGwNc pnotPMi+rkugFDzUZzRSZ5Y3YX4W1NrxR5MaJHIlS8sWEZ3c5/Bo2wkfatxun5kHIOtu +icliONA8xmj0bJS7z9iy0PaW2SrzuC7Lh5ad0cCb70IBBVY5UTzFjft8VQVgz4YhIlv aFnc9BZEH2WeTW3OHsIFw355lZGdt0ehlD6rHI8M7dtIBnq7ndPur0S2DKvMHYdunvp1 mUHG1cjetdufz/eo+wieAJATZeBMoNDd5pPyanOYENU5LgWZ4TfXUeDKq6xeeE3MqBQI gIjQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=qNBf408FFBTvQkkNwsnwP4yxqjli7rD3SFj0Bg4e3Bg=; b=bz2y51A6s2qntsxT1mcgVG9tfvgveOjHI+Wr/h3nvyj3P5F+JBTBPpWWpxPlT0mYFk Y48HScb4IDOEqRrGX2MqeLoggs85emqjhxLUBRkrCSMZTL/rrMTkrZJ5kab/gPlc8GI+ DeY/Sgmax40vgY7BqyOILPFKLZ8jZq7JVspDsi4f6THhy32IBlVPWNm+iiFznGnkDgXd V64x2e7sX7X0cofK45vFIDe6QdIorSXhblhhVAUJM5JqDNWlCDy3Nh5c1y1YcGI1Zzx6 B+zKq0KdsMsg9BUZZCNrM9mqTjp0VljXQYT7MP3h/vWAohKGdogvbtxHzjC/YWorgLaD s/mw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530yKu7O2clCpbESQDx9gXziXyNYzU6OtJyMPgnxM3nRTosTcPWu xr3+37gl+ZzHlDJbMpcnzbft+OJQeFveMg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJywHlFcUcFoSDo5Gxw7cM9IhWCU51sJrFk/rq1B/zEK610J6bw+krs3H9spiiQFSde2mp8CyA== X-Received: by 2002:adf:9e41:: with SMTP id v1mr28529214wre.60.1600254561202; Wed, 16 Sep 2020 04:09:21 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from krug ([89.180.151.18]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id h3sm4281133wrq.0.2020.09.16.04.09.19 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Wed, 16 Sep 2020 04:09:20 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20200916105356.GD13405@tuxteam.de> (tomas@tuxteam.de's message of "Wed, 16 Sep 2020 12:53:56 +0200") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::430; envelope-from=joaotavora@gmail.com; helo=mail-wr1-x430.google.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: No matching host in p0f cache. That's all we know. X-Spam_score_int: -5 X-Spam_score: -0.6 X-Spam_bar: / X-Spam_report: (-0.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=1.5, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:255857 Archived-At: tomas@tuxteam.de writes: > loop: opinionated "custom-themes" (or whatever we end up > naming that) informing the Emacs core about whatever tech > or concepts are necessary to keep the whole ship together. > Right. New features often come with a component of infrastruture and component of user code that relies on it. >> I think reasonably solutions with a lot of value and relatively >> little code are often in front of our eyes. Such was the case >> with icomplete being a good basis for fido-mode, which seems >> good enough that people are even recommending it. I'm >> almost always wary of giants or grand reinventions of things. >> For the "base" Emacs experience that is, in their setups people >> can use all the ivys, dooms, helms and magits they want. > this kind of discussions seem necessary and fruitful. > Emacs has always had this "problem" which is brought about by the huge flexibility that Elisp affords. But those kitchen-sink developments don't always integrate cleanly into Emacs for various reasons (from legal to technical). Custom themes can be used to tweak aspects _already_ in Emacs, and doing the latter would make long strides towards newcomer-friendliness, I think (and I also think we've all kind of agreed on that, bringing us to the "defaults" argument"). Anyway, my impression is that, custom themes don't seem to be used effectively, except to customize colors. Maybe they're not powerful enough? They do seem to have features that are extremely desirable here, such as ease of distribution, ease of composition and human-readability (for non-programmers). Jo=C3=A3o