From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: dick Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Easy configuration of a site-lisp directory Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2021 07:50:58 -0400 Message-ID: <8735rialb1.fsf@dick> References: <87y29cj65y.fsf@posteo.net> <87czqna77n.fsf@dick> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="2407"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.14 (Gnus v5.14pre) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: Philip Kaludercic , Stefan Monnier , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Arthur Miller Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Aug 09 13:51:53 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mD3ou-0000RT-Sr for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 09 Aug 2021 13:51:52 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:60350 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mD3ot-0002JF-Je for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 09 Aug 2021 07:51:51 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:43204) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mD3o6-0001af-SW for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 09 Aug 2021 07:51:02 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-qk1-x734.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::734]:35343) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mD3o4-0000r9-CZ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 09 Aug 2021 07:51:02 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-qk1-x734.google.com with SMTP id a19so17977329qkg.2 for ; Mon, 09 Aug 2021 04:51:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:user-agent:date :message-id:mime-version; bh=YKMCKSYeE7naZtjxlaOsJixcP7Zv1OxKU5QcAuXAwaA=; b=n6Z4ZB4ysFrcW703MN2LNcBfFOxBQHMozUlDxvB0MaOgCTt2dJJ5WeezxLs/OUnwlo HdxMJ2aYPi6TOFzNNW3M9sMveY+ls46aZcQOvKNc61ZPnDJn0ObEJ8ssjewpw2ny7s/7 FCHLFY1Tlts6mZVDkDhAqjd4OsWaKimFGq+hPKoRlvyRjQMb4MWl+XkvT3dCHWdnQqnC s5AMpdkMJpqTNV4s8xPpurSgQDL4ZfUmV2COUEQR8K16PzR4K5nyNfhZ/2qa0Sx95AAf JdP9SCTdFJcNtVJVw7AWIlR1Jq4jVqwVdeomgjYzpZ1l+ErxisFkG5VEDERQYWsBNsIM 3eLw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references :user-agent:date:message-id:mime-version; bh=YKMCKSYeE7naZtjxlaOsJixcP7Zv1OxKU5QcAuXAwaA=; b=bmGWTa69kzsFq6F/1sfrdidKRVN0dP9pXYKyGssu5UjT2KGLgNGbWdOyQKX5JKD74L 0ujR8doMMhFsQOBumw+S3jj9Du+KuX75udtU2d4OcFFyGwi1E2EiS7suRXI/2P1p8mm2 hCip+OidsnY4ZkQOHB2/3141mfRt+cyqZF/CGGXvxD2J23wd6TdQhfut6qWcqFVgh3kf 0fi0uZmtoWFTmEtKYTPcuDK3Ytohc+mnZM/f8TC4+ZxggLaiByCcy2qNZYE+VICUTwZF iSvSMV3p7gdW3TywWiibHdhyDHAOFL8ideLp52BVZO3wmKciF76koglFQRq5liQubYkE rVEA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531xgMn+BQYcAyHYtgv6dowl+1OrScDh1beZeE0ko5jEv8WN5hmT suzU0P3HmbS/bSeAON1pudY= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzPEr5SQ5UNg10cEt/5O8CizwzAz1U8W78hR1xftVPBK1DhT6zxlAltMPsM8LEcTVuxU7biNw== X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:c84:: with SMTP id q4mr23314021qki.243.1628509859517; Mon, 09 Aug 2021 04:50:59 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from localhost ([68.237.93.126]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 126sm2424433qkm.47.2021.08.09.04.50.58 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Mon, 09 Aug 2021 04:50:59 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: (Arthur Miller's message of "Mon, 09 Aug 2021 08:52:13 +0200") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::734; envelope-from=dick.r.chiang@gmail.com; helo=mail-qk1-x734.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:272231 Archived-At: > Never heard of Elpaso before. What is the advantage compared to straight? It embraces package.el. Straight would prefer its users eliminate all package.el configuration. As I am a contemptuous (and contemptible) being, I'll take this opportunity to badmouth straight. Its answer to GNU ELPA being "stupidly complex" was hosting a Heroku mirror to "bypass terrible package management decisions" and to avoid having to understand the elpa-admin code. [1] One particularly unsightly side effect of this is 50 lines of gnarly elisp to get around org-mode's needing a preliminary call to `make`. It's also impossible to take seriously a README that is 23,000 words, but what do I know? My reading of r/emacs suggests roughly half the forum's enthusiasts use straight, not to mention all the zoomer doomers. > a centralized reviewed source is also at least some security safety net. Statements like this only encourage the invidious-minded among us to "check your privilege." It's obvious to everyone that baseline measures like package-signing or secure http only ensure the trojan horse you're getting is authentically the trojan horse that my blackhat alias wrote. The ELPAs rely on our good faith and the limited financial upside of exploiting a userbase of our modest size (and probably modest means -- emacsers use free software not only for philosophical reasons!). [1] https://github.com/raxod502/straight.el/issues/762#issuecomment-841859211