From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Sean Whitton Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: cl-lib warnings Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2022 15:55:28 -0700 Message-ID: <8735944djz.fsf@melete.silentflame.com> References: <86o7s3lsnx.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <86bknx8783.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <837cylapt4.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="13198"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Cc: Eli Zaretskii , Juri Linkov , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Dec 24 23:56:30 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1p9DRM-0003D9-Vm for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 24 Dec 2022 23:56:30 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1p9DQb-0007i7-Pb; Sat, 24 Dec 2022 17:55:41 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1p9DQZ-0007gT-Dy for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 24 Dec 2022 17:55:39 -0500 Original-Received: from wout1-smtp.messagingengine.com ([64.147.123.24]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1p9DQX-00082o-4K; Sat, 24 Dec 2022 17:55:38 -0500 Original-Received: from compute6.internal (compute6.nyi.internal [10.202.2.47]) by mailout.west.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id E28B53200645; Sat, 24 Dec 2022 17:55:33 -0500 (EST) Original-Received: from mailfrontend2 ([10.202.2.163]) by compute6.internal (MEProxy); Sat, 24 Dec 2022 17:55:34 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=spwhitton.name; h=cc:cc:content-type:date:date:from:from:in-reply-to :in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references:reply-to:sender :subject:subject:to:to; s=fm1; t=1671922533; x=1672008933; bh=EL Q+FzDjM8B6MLLqTJE0Zcckz/+llkZoSpEbew0Qyog=; b=EUFpmtt8fxmgJihLnS 8S+DWK1u4OcagUiWlQ4QpYe6Bum1GOIrBtKXs751jZQxmq9EA8J440qa+IDhJeRW ZN4O+6AOEa4aT4EGaOpy8vPepiP60cQuyB5fOpHrr4uRH6HIjvAyAgbOAJjtgcMH aMhPrpTywhaVD/lJOAj6mDtLlXzP+bWu93Nm9GaMCDxddNOOClrMDYC66J4C5bw1 zSR03JyF2IJk883+aVnvIFyr/kMwKcdhdGDsutt8dUt6n44Xs1RVrg34qMARKhpS iht3LQccdgqLjA2j4vLBZe3fosa04XJmFECw4IBjlAFxBBGI17bSlSX0ZycjyNq8 K1aA== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:cc:content-type:date:date:feedback-id :feedback-id:from:from:in-reply-to:in-reply-to:message-id :mime-version:references:reply-to:sender:subject:subject:to:to :x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s= fm2; t=1671922533; x=1672008933; bh=ELQ+FzDjM8B6MLLqTJE0Zcckz/+l lkZoSpEbew0Qyog=; b=SPpv9/D1GswrbzsqVZd1Fjju5xeiRqJy2MrEFfsUH4+Q zykeLatg1Ke3SzovYKRLqR8nklm8wPw04atlvoKj5TtaDqytnQM0k684LARxD+RS +l3NhbXitSzJucq6ZPfRUEpCUelOnBUjd/I1WqErdVOYcjuLNUGyHuCX2j+4nB7I LGMekF9gK+ojl4OclpfuWdjebacAb3pyptYtHwVNQykezQKFBA2BhphpgBF4EK2m 9WhJ17Ffj6xVFZ4QUUimAI8espBtp5xVvKo31fSy8N2UgApIygf4i45ls92iSU+s cgraOEgi3juk+z/PUusYqorG33BeV8T0E9I69TQvxg== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Received: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedvhedrheehgddthecutefuodetggdotefrodftvf curfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfghnecu uegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecusecvtfgvtghiphhivghnthhsucdlqddutddtmdenuc fjughrpefhvfevufgjfhffkfgfgggtsehttddttddtredtnecuhfhrohhmpefuvggrnhcu hghhihhtthhonhcuoehsphifhhhithhtohhnsehsphifhhhithhtohhnrdhnrghmvgeqne cuggftrfgrthhtvghrnheptdffvdffueeluedvteekvdevhefghedvgeevgffhvedukeeg geelveegjeekteeknecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptdenucfrrghrrghmpehmrghilh hfrhhomhepshhpfihhihhtthhonhesshhpfihhihhtthhonhdrnhgrmhgv X-ME-Proxy: Feedback-ID: i23c04076:Fastmail Original-Received: by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Sat, 24 Dec 2022 17:55:29 -0500 (EST) Original-Received: by melete.silentflame.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 665A17EDD75; Sat, 24 Dec 2022 15:55:28 -0700 (MST) In-Reply-To: (Stefan Monnier's message of "Wed, 21 Dec 2022 12:53:04 -0500") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=64.147.123.24; envelope-from=spwhitton@spwhitton.name; helo=wout1-smtp.messagingengine.com X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:301885 Archived-At: Hello, On Wed 21 Dec 2022 at 12:53PM -05, Stefan Monnier wrote: > FWIW, I suspect that `cl-lib.el` is used in many more Emacs sessions > than `tab-bar.el` (byte-compiled size 92652), so I'd be in favor of > *not* preloading `tab-bar.el` and preload `cl-lib.el` instead (which > should result in an overall smaller preloaded heap). Bugs which would not occur were cl-lib preloaded come up relatively often, and tend to spawn long mailing list/debbugs threads where people figure out what to do. Therefore, we'd save a lot of developer time if we preloaded cl-lib. This is the most significant advantage. Preloading cl-lib would not amount to much of a tacit endorsement of using CL facilities or style any more often than at present, for the following reasons. Firstly, we already preload some of cl-*, and we already preload cl-lib in the bootstrap image, so relative to that it's a small change. Secondly, this is Lisp, so culturally speaking, people are going to use cl-lib if they want to use it, regardless of any perception of tacit upstream endorsement. And in fact, I bet some people are motivated to use it just because of how there are prominent Emacs developers who don't like CL-style code, so maybe not preloading it means there is more such code written :) -- Sean Whitton