From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Sean Whitton Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: cl-lib warnings Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2023 10:58:06 -0700 Message-ID: <87358nmtox.fsf@melete.silentflame.com> References: <86o7s3lsnx.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <86bknx8783.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <837cylapt4.fsf@gnu.org> <83wn6kamwr.fsf@gnu.org> <83len0aldq.fsf@gnu.org> <87v8lkmd9z.fsf@melete.silentflame.com> <83358ow1yy.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="31705"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Cc: lekktu@gmail.com, joaotavora@gmail.com, juri@linkov.net, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Jan 06 18:58:57 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1pDqzY-00086B-K8 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; 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Fri, 6 Jan 2023 12:58:06 -0500 (EST) Original-Received: by melete.silentflame.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 33FE07E91BA; Fri, 6 Jan 2023 10:58:06 -0700 (MST) In-Reply-To: <83358ow1yy.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Fri, 06 Jan 2023 09:34:29 +0200") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=66.111.4.29; envelope-from=spwhitton@spwhitton.name; helo=out5-smtp.messagingengine.com X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:302259 Archived-At: Hello, On Fri 06 Jan 2023 at 09:34AM +02, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > The "almost always" is not a numerical criterion, its "almost" part is > intended to cover the cases where the package is _always_ loaded at > startup, but only in some configurations of Emacs. Like something > that happens only in GTK builds. So counting the number of Lisp > packages that require cl-lib is not going to change my mind. Okay, thanks. > In general, I'm worried by IMO too nonchalant attitude towards > preloading more and more into Emacs. We should actively try to keep > the memory footprint of the Emacs process in check. It is true that > each package we add increases the footprint by a small amount, but > those small amounts eventually add up to a sum that is significant. > On my system starting "emacs -q" with various versions of Emacs > produces the following memory footprint values: > > emacs 22.1 10.6 MiB > emacs 23.1 11.5 MiB > emacs 24.1 13.4 MiB > emacs 25.1 32.5 MiB > emacs 26.1 35.5 MiB > emacs 27.1 25.1 MiB > emacs 28.2 26.7 MiB > > Granted, not all of the increase is due to preloading more Lisp, but > some of it is, and so IMO we should resist the temptation to add more > just because it saves us some 'require's. What sort of target do you think we should have? -- Sean Whitton