Emacs 29.0.50 Snapshot binaries for WIndows

Emacs 29.0.50 Snapshot binaries for WIndows

[c.buhtz]

Dear folks,

dear Corwin please excuse my CC-post but the thread is quit old.

Corwin Brust wrote on 16th Feb 2022
> As much for my own testing as for yours, I have created a set of
> binary "snapshot" releases of Emacs for Windows.
> 
> https://alpha.gnu.org/gnu/emacs/pretest/windows/?C=M;O=D

I'm sorry for warming up such an old thread.

I was looking for an quit actual Emacs29 Windows binary to do some
tests in my environment.

https://alpha.gnu.org/gnu/emacs/pretest/windows/

The latest Emacs29 I can find here is from October 2022.

Is there something more fresh? Or can we reactivate that
pretest/snapshot builds?

Kind
Christian Buhtz

Re: Emacs 29.0.50 Snapshot binaries for WIndows

[Corwin Brust]

Hi Christian!

No worries - no thread is too old for further discussion on devel and
please forgive the hasty, top-posed reply :)

The last time I pushed Emacs 29 binaries for Windows was before the
emacs-29 branch was cut.  I have successfully built some but I need to
make some changes in my environment to make the new deps,zip.  Once
that's all working again then I'll make new snapshot binaries (now for
Emacs 30) next.

Thanks for the nudge!

Corwin

On Wed, Feb 1, 2023 at 1:36 AM <c.buhtz@posteo.jp> wrote:
>
> Dear folks,
>
> dear Corwin please excuse my CC-post but the thread is quit old.
>
> Corwin Brust wrote on 16th Feb 2022
> > As much for my own testing as for yours, I have created a set of
> > binary "snapshot" releases of Emacs for Windows.
> >
> > https://alpha.gnu.org/gnu/emacs/pretest/windows/?C=M;O=D
>
> I'm sorry for warming up such an old thread.
>
> I was looking for an quit actual Emacs29 Windows binary to do some
> tests in my environment.
>
> https://alpha.gnu.org/gnu/emacs/pretest/windows/
>
> The latest Emacs29 I can find here is from October 2022.
>
> Is there something more fresh? Or can we reactivate that
> pretest/snapshot builds?
>
> Kind
> Christian Buhtz
>

Re: Emacs 29.0.50 Snapshot binaries for WIndows

[c.buhtz]

Dear Corwin,

can we have Emacs 29 binary for Windows with he current state for
testing?

Kind
Christian

Re: Emacs 29.0.50 Snapshot binaries for WIndows

[Corwin Brust]

On Sun, Feb 19, 2023 at 3:56 AM <c.buhtz@posteo.jp> wrote:
>
> can we have Emacs 29 binary for Windows with he current state for
> testing?

Binaries (and zip of sources) for Emacs 29.0.60 made today are now
published to the alpha FTP server:

https://alpha.gnu.org/gnu/emacs/pretest/windows/emacs-29/?C=M;O=D

This is my first (pre)release build of Emacs 29 so LMK what you
suspect I've messaged up during packaging.

Also, I allowed my GPG key to expire.  I've updated its expire date
and pushed it up to some key servers.  LMK where else I can upload
that if I appear to have neglected your favorite GPG keyserver.

Warm regards,
Corwin

Re: Emacs 29.0.50 Snapshot binaries for WIndows

[Troy Brown]

Corwin Brust <corwin@bru.st> writes:

> Binaries (and zip of sources) for Emacs 29.0.60 made today are now
> published to the alpha FTP server:
>
> https://alpha.gnu.org/gnu/emacs/pretest/windows/emacs-29/?C=M;O=D
>
> This is my first (pre)release build of Emacs 29 so LMK what you
> suspect I've messaged up during packaging.

It appears this was built without tree-sitter support.  I'm not sure if
this was intentional or just an oversight.

Re: Emacs 29.0.50 Snapshot binaries for WIndows

[c.buhtz]

Good Morning,

the inbuild sql doesn't work with orgroam. At discourse I was pointed to 
the question if Emacs was build with sql support?

https://org-roam.discourse.group/t/sqlite-suport-is-not-available-with-emacs-29-on-windows/2991/2

The value of "system-configuration-features" is

"ACL GIF GMP GNUTLS HARFBUZZ JPEG JSON LCMS2 LIBXML2 MODULES NATIVE_COMP 
NOTIFY W32NOTIFY PDUMPER PNG RSVG SOUND SQLITE3 THREADS TIFF 
TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS WEBP XPM ZLIB"

It seems that "SQLITE3" is in there.

Confused.

Re: Emacs 29.0.50 Snapshot binaries for WIndows

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2023 06:43:54 +0000
> From: c.buhtz@posteo.jp
> Cc: Corwin Brust <corwin@bru.st>
> 
> Good Morning,
> 
> the inbuild sql doesn't work with orgroam. At discourse I was pointed to 
> the question if Emacs was build with sql support?
> 
> https://org-roam.discourse.group/t/sqlite-suport-is-not-available-with-emacs-29-on-windows/2991/2
> 
> The value of "system-configuration-features" is
> 
> "ACL GIF GMP GNUTLS HARFBUZZ JPEG JSON LCMS2 LIBXML2 MODULES NATIVE_COMP 
> NOTIFY W32NOTIFY PDUMPER PNG RSVG SOUND SQLITE3 THREADS TIFF 
> TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS WEBP XPM ZLIB"
> 
> It seems that "SQLITE3" is in there.

SQLITE3 is supported, but you need to have the libsqlite3-0.dll on
PATH or in the same directory as emacs.exe, for this support to work.
Did you install the sqlite3 library?

Re: Emacs 29.0.50 Snapshot binaries for WIndows

[c.buhtz]

Am 24.02.2023 09:22 schrieb Eli Zaretskii:
> SQLITE3 is supported, but you need to have the libsqlite3-0.dll on
> PATH or in the same directory as emacs.exe, for this support to work.
> Did you install the sqlite3 library?

No I didn't install anything else.

Did you mean the "Precompiled Binaries for Windows" I can find here:

     https://www.sqlite.org/download.html

I can give it a try tonight when I'm back at that machine.

Re: Emacs 29.0.50 Snapshot binaries for WIndows

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2023 08:47:34 +0000
> From: c.buhtz@posteo.jp
> 
> 
> 
> Am 24.02.2023 09:22 schrieb Eli Zaretskii:
> > SQLITE3 is supported, but you need to have the libsqlite3-0.dll on
> > PATH or in the same directory as emacs.exe, for this support to work.
> > Did you install the sqlite3 library?
> 
> No I didn't install anything else.
> 
> Did you mean the "Precompiled Binaries for Windows" I can find here:
> 
>      https://www.sqlite.org/download.html

Either that, or the one distributed by the MSYS2 folks.

Re: Emacs 29.0.50 Snapshot binaries for WIndows

[c.buhtz]

Am 24.02.2023 12:40 schrieb Eli Zaretskii:
>> Did you mean the "Precompiled Binaries for Windows" I can find here:
>> 
>>      https://www.sqlite.org/download.html
> 
> Either that, or the one distributed by the MSYS2 folks.

MSYS2 is not an option in my organisation. I need to keep the admins 
calm. :D

My problem is that sqlite.org download doesn't come with an installer. 
There is only a DLL file in the zip. Where should I copy it into? Emacs 
can't find it.

Re: Emacs 29.0.50 Snapshot binaries for WIndows

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2023 21:01:30 +0000
> From: c.buhtz@posteo.jp
> 
> Am 24.02.2023 12:40 schrieb Eli Zaretskii:
> >> Did you mean the "Precompiled Binaries for Windows" I can find here:
> >> 
> >>      https://www.sqlite.org/download.html
> > 
> > Either that, or the one distributed by the MSYS2 folks.
> 
> MSYS2 is not an option in my organisation. I need to keep the admins 
> calm. :D
> 
> My problem is that sqlite.org download doesn't come with an installer. 
> There is only a DLL file in the zip. Where should I copy it into?

Copy it to the same directory where you have emacs.exe.

Re: Emacs 29.0.50 Snapshot binaries for WIndows

[c.buhtz]

Dear Eli,
thanks for your help and patience.

Am 24.02.2023 22:17 schrieb Eli Zaretskii:
> Copy it to the same directory where you have emacs.exe.

Stupid me. :D

But it did not work also.

I copied the dll into the "bin" folder where the "runemacs.exe" is 
located.
I copied it into C:\Windows and C:\Windows\system also.
And I did a reboot.

I also using the "emacsql-sqlite-builtin" package. Not sure if this is 
needed.

Re: Emacs 29.0.50 Snapshot binaries for WIndows

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2023 21:42:20 +0000
> From: c.buhtz@posteo.jp
> 
> Dear Eli,
> thanks for your help and patience.
> 
> Am 24.02.2023 22:17 schrieb Eli Zaretskii:
> > Copy it to the same directory where you have emacs.exe.
> 
> Stupid me. :D
> 
> But it did not work also.
> 
> I copied the dll into the "bin" folder where the "runemacs.exe" is 
> located.
> I copied it into C:\Windows and C:\Windows\system also.
> And I did a reboot.

The name of the DLL is not what Emacs expects.  Rename the DLL to
libsqlite3-0.dll, then restart Emacs.

Re: Emacs 29.0.50 Snapshot binaries for WIndows

[c.buhtz]

Dear Eli,

can you please have a look into this thread in the OrgRoam forum.

<https://org-roam.discourse.group/t/sqlite-suport-is-not-available-with-emacs-29-on-windows/2991/10>

They still telling me that the Emacs binary was build without sqlite
support.

I'm confused and just a user.

Re: Emacs 29.0.50 Snapshot binaries for WIndows

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2023 15:17:22 +0000
> From: <c.buhtz@posteo.jp>
> 
> Dear Eli,
> 
> can you please have a look into this thread in the OrgRoam forum.
> 
> <https://org-roam.discourse.group/t/sqlite-suport-is-not-available-with-emacs-29-on-windows/2991/10>
> 
> They still telling me that the Emacs binary was build without sqlite
> support.
> 
> I'm confused and just a user.

I'm not just a user, but I'm nevertheless confused.  Last time I asked
you to rename the DLL you downloaded from the SQLite3 site and put it
in the same directory as the emacs.exe file.  Did you try that?  If
you did, does "M-: (sqlite-available-p) RET" produce "t" or does it
still produce "nil"?

Re: Emacs 29.0.50 Snapshot binaries for WIndows

[Corwin Brust]

On Thu, Feb 23, 2023 at 11:33 PM Troy Brown <brownts@troybrown.dev> wrote:
>
> Corwin Brust <corwin@bru.st> writes:
>
> > Binaries (and zip of sources) for Emacs 29.0.60 made today are now
> > published to the alpha FTP server:
> >
> > https://alpha.gnu.org/gnu/emacs/pretest/windows/emacs-29/?C=M;O=D
> >
> > This is my first (pre)release build of Emacs 29 so LMK what you
> > suspect I've messaged up during packaging.
>
> It appears this was built without tree-sitter support.  I'm not sure if
> this was intentional or just an oversight.

Alpha has now has emacs-29-0.60_2, which has DLLs for sqlite (and
tree-sitter) in the self-installer, zip, deps.zip, and deps-src.zip.

https://alpha.gnu.org/gnu/emacs/pretest/windows/emacs-29/?C=M;O=D

TIA for any (additional) problems you are able to spot!

Emacs 29.0.50 Snapshot binaries for WIndows

[Corwin Brust]

Hi All,

As much for my own testing as for yours, I have created a set of
binary "snapshot" releases of Emacs for Windows.

https://alpha.gnu.org/gnu/emacs/pretest/windows/?C=M;O=D

These reflect the master branch as of Feb 11th.  Note, this took me
some time to accomplish. The dependencies were packaged the prior
weekend, but don't appear to have changed and should work fine.  A zip
of the emacs sources used is also available as
emacs-29.0.50-snapshot-2022-02-11-src.zip

If you want these please grab them ASAP; I expect to move or remove
them fairly shortly. Apropos:

Eli, Dieter,

Do you agree we should continue to release Emacs snapshot builds for
Windows from master periodically?  My leaning would be that we keep a
rolling "last few" available, building them once or twice a week on a
"best effort" basis.

Given you agree we should continue to publish snapshots at all, do you
have preferences as to where they are placed?

My leaning is to create a "snapshots" folder at the same level as the
emacs-28 directory, thus /gnu/emacs/pretest/windows/snapshots.
Another obvious candidate would be "emacs-29" but I 'm a little
hesitant it could cause confusion as to what release is imminent if we
have both emacs-28 and emacs-29 folders at the same level of the tree
while emacs-28 is still yet to be released.

In any case, I was hesitant to create any new folder/tree without
consultation but I did want to verify I can complete the process
"end-to-end".

I can easily move/remove these binaries, probably before work tomorrow
if you feel action is at all urgent. (I typically leave for the office
sometime around 8a America/Chicago.)  If there is further cleanup to
attend to please feel free to let me know that also.  I would plan to
archive anything else besides the just published snapshots.  The
snapshots I would delete and then re-upload into the proper place (or
not).

Corwin

Re: Emacs 29.0.50 Snapshot binaries for WIndows

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Corwin Brust <corwin@bru.st>
> Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2022 21:37:48 -0600
> Cc: Phillip Lord <phillip.lord@russet.org.uk>
> 
> Eli, Dieter,
> 
> Do you agree we should continue to release Emacs snapshot builds for
> Windows from master periodically?

It's not up to me.  If these snapshots are useful, i.e. if enough
users will download and use them, then yes, having them would be good,
as that will allow us to expand the base of our continuous testing of
the development codebase.

> My leaning would be that we keep a rolling "last few" available,
> building them once or twice a week on a "best effort" basis.

Sure.  Keeping 2 or 3 last snapshots should be good, so people could
downgrade if the latest one is broken, or compare some behavior with
an older snapshot.

> Given you agree we should continue to publish snapshots at all, do you
> have preferences as to where they are placed?
> 
> My leaning is to create a "snapshots" folder at the same level as the
> emacs-28 directory, thus /gnu/emacs/pretest/windows/snapshots.

On alpha.gnu.org, yes.

> Another obvious candidate would be "emacs-29" but I 'm a little
> hesitant it could cause confusion as to what release is imminent if we
> have both emacs-28 and emacs-29 folders at the same level of the tree
> while emacs-28 is still yet to be released.

Using "emacs-29" would be extra burden for you, as you'd need to
rename the directory or clean it up when we advance to the next
version on master.  So I think just 'snapshots' is better.

Thanks.

Re: Emacs 29.0.50 Snapshot binaries for WIndows

[H. Dieter Wilhelm]

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

>> From: Corwin Brust <corwin@bru.st>
>> Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2022 21:37:48 -0600
>> Cc: Phillip Lord <phillip.lord@russet.org.uk>
>> 
>> Eli, Dieter,
>> 
>> Do you agree we should continue to release Emacs snapshot builds for
>> Windows from master periodically?
>
> It's not up to me.  If these snapshots are useful, i.e. if enough
> users will download and use them, then yes, having them would be good,
> as that will allow us to expand the base of our continuous testing of
> the development codebase.

Already running Corwin's Emacs-29 build. :-)

>> My leaning would be that we keep a rolling "last few" available,
>> building them once or twice a week on a "best effort" basis.
>
> Sure.  Keeping 2 or 3 last snapshots should be good, so people could
> downgrade if the latest one is broken, or compare some behavior with
> an older snapshot.
>
>> Given you agree we should continue to publish snapshots at all, do you
>> have preferences as to where they are placed?
>> 
>> My leaning is to create a "snapshots" folder at the same level as the
>> emacs-28 directory, thus /gnu/emacs/pretest/windows/snapshots.
>
> On alpha.gnu.org, yes.
>
>> Another obvious candidate would be "emacs-29" but I 'm a little
>> hesitant it could cause confusion as to what release is imminent if we
>> have both emacs-28 and emacs-29 folders at the same level of the tree
>> while emacs-28 is still yet to be released.
>
> Using "emacs-29" would be extra burden for you, as you'd need to
> rename the directory or clean it up when we advance to the next
> version on master.  So I think just 'snapshots' is better.

Total agreement to all above.  But I feel the structure of alpha.gnu.org
could tolerate some cleaning.

On alpha.gnu.org/gnu/emacs/ there are currently 2 folders

- pretest/
  |  pretest files
  |- windows/
     |  emacs-29 snapshot files
     |- emacs-27/
     |  | release files (redundant with ftp.gnu.org)
     |- emacs-28/
        | emacs-28 pretest files
        | emacs-28 snapshot files  
- windows/ (superfluent with above folder windows/ folder, I think)
  | emacs-25 pretest files
  | emacs-28 pretest files

I think a less confusing - and still compatible - structure should be

- pretest/
  | pretest files
  |- windows/
     | pretest files or folders
- snapshot/
  | snapshot files
  |- windows/
     | snapshot files or folders

@Corwin: Do you also have wright access to ftp.gnu.org for the upcoming
release?

Is it really worth the burden to build snapshots of the release
branch-28, when there are pretests out?

Thanks
        Dieter
-- 
Best wishes
H. Dieter Wilhelm
Zwingenberg, Germany

Re: Emacs 29.0.50 Snapshot binaries for WIndows

[Phillip Lord]

"H. Dieter Wilhelm" <dieter@duenenhof-wilhelm.de> writes:

> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
>
>
> @Corwin: Do you also have wright access to ftp.gnu.org for the upcoming
> release?
>
> Is it really worth the burden to build snapshots of the release
> branch-28, when there are pretests out?


I wouldn't. It risks confusing things (especially if the snapshots get
behind the pretest!).

I used to build snapshots master branch and sometimes the release
branch before the pre-tests. Occasionally, I used to build other
branchs as well (the pdumper branch was the main one). You might be able
to get stats from the website logs to see whether this was worth while
or not! I would guess "when there is a new feature" is probably as good
as a regular release.

Phil

Re: Emacs 29.0.50 Snapshot binaries for WIndows

[Richard Stallman]

[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

  > As much for my own testing as for yours, I have created a set of
  > binary "snapshot" releases of Emacs for Windows.

Do we have something lie this for GNU/Linux?
Or is there some reason why there is no need for them on GNU/Linux?

It would not be right to give more support to Windows than to
the GNU system itself.

-- 
Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org)
Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org)
Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)

Re: Emacs 29.0.50 Snapshot binaries for WIndows

[Po Lu]

Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> writes:

> Do we have something lie this for GNU/Linux?
>
> Or is there some reason why there is no need for them on GNU/Linux?

On GNU/Linux, people typically have access to a compiler and the tools
needed to obtain the Emacs source code, while MS-Windows users usually
have to rely on prebuilt binaries.

Re: Emacs 29.0.50 Snapshot binaries for WIndows

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org>
> Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, dieter@duenenhof-wilhelm.de, eliz@gnu.org,
> 	phillip.lord@russet.org.uk
> Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2022 23:57:28 -0500
> 
>   > As much for my own testing as for yours, I have created a set of
>   > binary "snapshot" releases of Emacs for Windows.
> 
> Do we have something lie this for GNU/Linux?
> Or is there some reason why there is no need for them on GNU/Linux?

GNU/Linux users have the various distros that package Emacs binaries
for them.  The volunteers who produce the MS-Windows binaries are in
effect acting like such a distro for Windows users.

> It would not be right to give more support to Windows than to
> the GNU system itself.

The Emacs project doesn't support those volunteers by more than
advice, answers to questions, and asking the GNU uploading personnel
to give them upload rights.

Re: Emacs 29.0.50 Snapshot binaries for WIndows

[Richard Stallman]

[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

  > >   > As much for my own testing as for yours, I have created a set of
  > >   > binary "snapshot" releases of Emacs for Windows.
  > > 
  > > Do we have something lie this for GNU/Linux?
  > > Or is there some reason why there is no need for them on GNU/Linux?

  > GNU/Linux users have the various distros that package Emacs binaries
  > for them.  The volunteers who produce the MS-Windows binaries are in
  > effect acting like such a distro for Windows users.

That's true, but (1) they do this for _releases_ and (2) it is not new.

The "snapshot" releases are apparently something else.  How are they
different from the Windows binaries volunteers have made in the past?

-- 
Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org)
Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org)
Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)

Re: Emacs 29.0.50 Snapshot binaries for WIndows

[Po Lu]

Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> writes:

> That's true, but (1) they do this for _releases_ and (2) it is not new.
>
> The "snapshot" releases are apparently something else.  How are they
> different from the Windows binaries volunteers have made in the past?

They aren't made from releases but from copies ("snapshots") of the
development tree.

Re: Emacs 29.0.50 Snapshot binaries for WIndows

[Richard Stallman]

[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

  > > The "snapshot" releases are apparently something else.  How are they
  > > different from the Windows binaries volunteers have made in the past?

  > They aren't made from releases but from copies ("snapshots") of the
  > development tree.

Thanks.  Now I know concretely what the issue is, and I can draw some
conclusions.

The issue is a matter of the priorities of our project.  We should not
be catering to Windows (or MacOS, or any nonfree system) more than we
cater to the GNU system, because GNU and the Free World get priority
on principle.

If people using versions the GNU system have no need for snapshots
like these (perhaps because they are all happier compiling the sources
themselves, as some have suggested), then then these snapshots don't
raise a moral issue.

But if in fact users of some GNU/Linux distros would like this kind of
snapshot too, we should provide this sort of help on those distros
before we provide it on Windows.

It's not a matter of _who_ does the work, it's a matter of which work
gets done.



-- 
Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org)
Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org)
Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)

Re: Emacs 29.0.50 Snapshot binaries for WIndows

[Po Lu]

Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> writes:

> But if in fact users of some GNU/Linux distros would like this kind of
> snapshot too, we should provide this sort of help on those distros
> before we provide it on Windows.

I think there are such snapshot packages for several of the free
GNU/Linux distros, such as the Guix system and Parabola.

Many volunteers package snapshots for other distros as well, via the PPA
(personal package archive) system for Ubuntu, Fedora's COPR service, and
so on and so forth.

Re: Emacs 29.0.50 Snapshot binaries for WIndows

[Richard Stallman]

[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

  > I think there are such snapshot packages for several of the free
  > GNU/Linux distros, such as the Guix system and Parabola.

  > Many volunteers package snapshots for other distros as well, via the PPA
  > (personal package archive) system for Ubuntu, Fedora's COPR service, and
  > so on and so forth.

Thank you.  That shows me we're not giving Windows better treatment
than GNU.

-- 
Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org)
Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org)
Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)

Re: Emacs 29.0.50 Snapshot binaries for WIndows

[Eli Zaretskii]

On February 21, 2022 6:35:17 AM GMT+02:00, Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> wrote:
> 
> The issue is a matter of the priorities of our project.  We should not
> be catering to Windows (or MacOS, or any nonfree system) more than we
> cater to the GNU system, because GNU and the Free World get priority
> on principle.

Once again, this is not a project's activity.  Emacs as a project doesn't provide binaries for any platform, and I don't think it should.

These Windows binaries are produced by volunteers who aren't Emacs developers, and the only support they get from us is advice regarding some aspects of the packaging.  So I see no reason to question whether this raises some moral issues.  We as a project aren't catering here to any OS, we are just answering questions and sharing user experience.  That these discussions are held on Emacs mailing lists shouldn't confuse us about the essence of this activity.

Re: Emacs 29.0.50 Snapshot binaries for WIndows

[Tim Cross]

Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> writes:

> [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
> [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
> [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]
>
>   > > The "snapshot" releases are apparently something else.  How are they
>   > > different from the Windows binaries volunteers have made in the past?
>
>   > They aren't made from releases but from copies ("snapshots") of the
>   > development tree.
>
> Thanks.  Now I know concretely what the issue is, and I can draw some
> conclusions.
>
> The issue is a matter of the priorities of our project.  We should not
> be catering to Windows (or MacOS, or any nonfree system) more than we
> cater to the GNU system, because GNU and the Free World get priority
> on principle.
>
> If people using versions the GNU system have no need for snapshots
> like these (perhaps because they are all happier compiling the sources
> themselves, as some have suggested), then then these snapshots don't
> raise a moral issue.
>
> But if in fact users of some GNU/Linux distros would like this kind of
> snapshot too, we should provide this sort of help on those distros
> before we provide it on Windows.
>
> It's not a matter of _who_ does the work, it's a matter of which work
> gets done.

It might be worth noting that manyh of the GNU Linux distributions have
community generated binary package 'snapshots'. For example Debian and
Ubuntu do. However, I think many people on GNU Linux systems are happy
enough with just building from the git repository (I get the impression
this is something which is much easier to do than on platforms like
WIndows where there is probably a higher number of people who don't have
the requisite build tools installed). In some ways, it probably makes
sense to leave snapshots for GNU Linux distros to the communities
associated with each distro as those community efforts will also work to
ensure the snapshot complies with distrobution specific package formats
and installation standards. For example, Debian and Ubuntu have
additional Emacs site code to support those distros ability to have
multiple versions of Emacs installed at the same time. It also means
users can install the snapshots using the package management system they
are familiar with and there is less chance of causing issues when their
distro updates to newer versions.

Re: Emacs 29.0.50 Snapshot binaries for WIndows

[chad]

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On Mon, Feb 21, 2022 at 7:32 AM Tim Cross <theophilusx@gmail.com> wrote:

> [...] ensure the snapshot complies with distrobution specific package
> formats
> and installation standards. For example, Debian and Ubuntu have
> additional Emacs site code to support those distros ability to have
> multiple versions of Emacs installed at the same time. It also means
> users can install the snapshots using the package management system they
> are familiar with and there is less chance of causing issues when their
> distro updates to newer versions.
>

This is a subtle but important point for anyone who is interested in
semi-frequent snapshots (as opposed to releases). Under Windows, macOS, and
a small subset of other systems (like Snap and Flatpak), these snapshots
are typically contained to a single app-specific directory. Adding one is
another directory; moving or removing one is likewise a single directory
operation. On the other hand, the installed version of emacs on most
GNU/Linux systems ends up with directories in several different
directories, often in similar but not identical places from one distro to
the next. This means that whatever tools are used to manage the snapshots
need to track where things were added and, when multiple versions are
installed simultaneously, which are to be removed (or shared, or
overwritten). This sort of operation gets very quickly into the specifics
of a distro, and thus is better handled within the mechanisms of that
distro. Thankfully, this is already being done (and not just recently), for
all of the major distros as far as I know, as well as for systems like Snap
and (different but perhaps related) Docker.

Hope that helps,
~Chad

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Re: Emacs 29.0.50 Snapshot binaries for WIndows

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: chad <yandros@gmail.com>
> Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2022 13:41:16 -0500
> Cc: EMACS development team <emacs-devel@gnu.org>
> 
> This is a subtle but important point for anyone who is interested in semi-frequent snapshots (as opposed to
> releases). Under Windows, macOS, and a small subset of other systems (like Snap and Flatpak), these
> snapshots are typically contained to a single app-specific directory. Adding one is another directory; moving
> or removing one is likewise a single directory operation. On the other hand, the installed version of emacs on
> most GNU/Linux systems ends up with directories in several different directories, often in similar but not
> identical places from one distro to the next. This means that whatever tools are used to manage the
> snapshots need to track where things were added and, when multiple versions are installed simultaneously,
> which are to be removed (or shared, or overwritten). This sort of operation gets very quickly into the specifics
> of a distro, and thus is better handled within the mechanisms of that distro. Thankfully, this is already being
> done (and not just recently), for all of the major distros as far as I know, as well as for systems like Snap and
> (different but perhaps related) Docker.

There's no difference between Windows and Posix systems wrt to the
directories where Emacs components are installed.  the only difference
is that on Windows the top-level directory of the installation tree is
not a standard one, but one chosen by the user.  But under that
top-level directory, the tree is the same.  And if one installs
snapshots on a system with working environment, one is unlikely to
install each snapshot in its own top-level directory, because that
will require much more tinkering: change Path, amend INFOPATH, etc.

Bottom line: there shouldn't be a significant difference here between
installation on Posix systems and installation on Windows.  (macOS is
an entirely different ball game.)

And I don't think this aspect is very relevant to the issue at hand.

Re: Emacs 29.0.50 Snapshot binaries for WIndows

[Po Lu]

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

> Bottom line: there shouldn't be a significant difference here between
> installation on Posix systems and installation on Windows.  (macOS is
> an entirely different ball game.)

I might add that the macOS "bundle" mechanism is almost the same as the
process for GNUstep, so we have that on free systems as well.

Re: Emacs 29.0.50 Snapshot binaries for WIndows

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org>
> Cc: corwin@bru.st, emacs-devel@gnu.org, dieter@duenenhof-wilhelm.de,
> 	phillip.lord@russet.org.uk
> Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2022 23:31:13 -0500
> 
>   > >   > As much for my own testing as for yours, I have created a set of
>   > >   > binary "snapshot" releases of Emacs for Windows.
>   > > 
>   > > Do we have something lie this for GNU/Linux?
>   > > Or is there some reason why there is no need for them on GNU/Linux?
> 
>   > GNU/Linux users have the various distros that package Emacs binaries
>   > for them.  The volunteers who produce the MS-Windows binaries are in
>   > effect acting like such a distro for Windows users.
> 
> That's true, but (1) they do this for _releases_

That's not true, AFAIU: there are development snapshot releases as
well.

> and (2) it is not new.

Neither is the fact that we provide MS-Windows binaries.  Volunteers
were providing precompiled Emacs binaries for MS-Windows for many
years.  For example, in https://alpha.gnu.org/gnu/emacs/windows/ you
can see pretest binaries that go back as far as Emacs 25, and that's
after numerous cleanups.

> The "snapshot" releases are apparently something else.  How are they
> different from the Windows binaries volunteers have made in the past?

They aren't.  AFAIR, we had snapshots at least since Emacs 27 if not
earlier.

Re: Emacs 29.0.50 Snapshot binaries for WIndows

[Richard Stallman]

[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

  > > The "snapshot" releases are apparently something else.  How are they
  > > different from the Windows binaries volunteers have made in the past?

  > They aren't.  AFAIR, we had snapshots at least since Emacs 27 if not
  > earlier.

I stand corrected.  I didn't know this was being done earlier.

However, that doesn't alter the nature of the problem.


-- 
Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org)
Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org)
Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)

Re: Emacs 29.0.50 Snapshot binaries for WIndows

[Dmitry Gutov]

On 20.02.2022 08:46, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
>> From: Richard Stallman<rms@gnu.org>
>> Cc:corwin@bru.st,emacs-devel@gnu.org,dieter@duenenhof-wilhelm.de,
>> 	phillip.lord@russet.org.uk
>> Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2022 23:31:13 -0500
>>
>>    > >   > As much for my own testing as for yours, I have created a set of
>>    > >   > binary "snapshot" releases of Emacs for Windows.
>>    > >
>>    > > Do we have something lie this for GNU/Linux?
>>    > > Or is there some reason why there is no need for them on GNU/Linux?
>>
>>    > GNU/Linux users have the various distros that package Emacs binaries
>>    > for them.  The volunteers who produce the MS-Windows binaries are in
>>    > effect acting like such a distro for Windows users.
>>
>> That's true, but (1) they do this for_releases_
> That's not true, AFAIU: there are development snapshot releases as
> well.
> 

Example:

https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-elisp/+archive/ubuntu/ppa

   The Official ;-) Ubuntu Emacs Daily Snapshot PPA.

Re: Emacs 29.0.50 Snapshot binaries for WIndows

[phillip.lord]

On 2022-02-20 04:31, Richard Stallman wrote:
> [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
> [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
> [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]
> 
>   > >   > As much for my own testing as for yours, I have created a set 
> of
>   > >   > binary "snapshot" releases of Emacs for Windows.
>   > >
>   > > Do we have something lie this for GNU/Linux?
>   > > Or is there some reason why there is no need for them on 
> GNU/Linux?
> 
>   > GNU/Linux users have the various distros that package Emacs 
> binaries
>   > for them.  The volunteers who produce the MS-Windows binaries are 
> in
>   > effect acting like such a distro for Windows users.
> 
> That's true, but (1) they do this for _releases_ and (2) it is not new.
> 
> The "snapshot" releases are apparently something else.  How are they
> different from the Windows binaries volunteers have made in the past?


I have been making snapshots (somewhat erratically) for many years. So 
they are the same as those.

The justification is the same as with the release binaries. Users of 
windows often lack the tools for building their software, while it's 
common under GNU/Linux and other systems. Most of the people who want 
"snapshots" on GNU/Linux build from a git checkout. That's not so easy 
for windows, hence we have snapshots.

I don't see this as providing more support from windows, just making up 
for a difficulty on windows.

Phil

Re: Emacs 29.0.50 Snapshot binaries for WIndows

[Corwin Brust]

Thank you for commenting, Dr. Stallman.

On Fri, Feb 18, 2022 at 10:57 PM Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> wrote:
>
> [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
> [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
> [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]
>
>   > As much for my own testing as for yours, I have created a set of
>   > binary "snapshot" releases of Emacs for Windows.
>
> Do we have something lie this for GNU/Linux?

I would be happy to make similar point in time snapshots for
additional platforms.  Bob, of savannah hackers notoriety, has
suggested there are some servers that may be available to us that I
suspect would be suitable toward automating this process, e.g. Arch
would be easy to target, I think.

If this is a request I will look further, but see below.

> Or is there some reason why there is no need for them on GNU/Linux?

As others have said, distributions most provide all that is needed to
make either self-compilation from master trival, and to automate that
locally or via development repositories of packaged software.
Moreover, they accept into these repositories consistent (we hope, and
trust) with their own stated promises, with which we must trust
(actually: "teach") users to have understood and, indeed, to prefer.
(They did select this distro/OS, after all..)

So, if we try to make snapshots for GNU/Linux, we are likely "chasing
the tail" of efforts happening (and which, indeed, should be
happening) nearer to users' explicitly trusted sources/controls (for
example, when taking in pre-built versions of Emacs' dependencies for
their platform, when not building those from sources).

Perhaps another approach could do something similar that might be more
interesting to GNU/Linux users..

Firstly ,I consider the impact in this case to be "bug reports".  In
creating snapshot and pre-release builds, our goal is to help find
platform specific problems as soon as possible before making
(especially xx.1) releases. Also, when we invite those users who
can't/won't compile Emacs from the git repository for themselves, we
are creating additional opportunities for people to become involved
with Emacs development, and perhaps the GNU project and the Free
Software Foundation.

[[As others have said "up thread", and I hope is clear, it is really
fairly easy to self-build Emacs, at this point, on nearly any "flavor"
of GNU/Linux user environment, almostly certainly more so than
"anywhere else". ]]

My first idea is to use the infrastructure had Bob mentioned may be
available to create automated snapshots builds once or several times
per day, each using a different GNU/Linux distribution.  We could then
run Emacs' test suite, They results of these runs would be sent via
email to "a few people" -- actually, via a new
"emacs-continuous-build@gnu.org list, but I think few would subscribe
;)  Running some automated form(s) of the performance metrics SM and
Andreas have been discussing seems like a very tempting target, if
something like this is attempted.

A second, and likely compatible/interconnected idea to document
"recipies" for self-building Emacs, perhaps putting such a document
into admin/README.SNAPSHOT-DISTRO.  For such providers as Debian, this
is likely a matter of finding the right file to quote.   In fact (to
me) this seems like a terrible task, to keep such a document current.
In fact, the only way I can think to manage the task that sounds like
fun would be to automatically pull the recipes used for a "continuous
build testing" implementation.  But, since all the software involved
here would be Free Software, there is no reason that cannot be done.

Sorry for sending such a long message to answer such short questions.
I happen to think there's an important opportunity in creating builds
of Emacs and testing them automatically.  I hope you find the idea(s)
interesting.

>
> It would not be right to give more support to Windows than to
> the GNU system itself.
>
> --
> Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org)
> Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org)
> Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org)
> Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)
>
>

Re: Emacs 29.0.50 Snapshot binaries for WIndows

[Richard Stallman]

[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

  > So, if we try to make snapshots for GNU/Linux, we are likely "chasing
  > the tail" of efforts happening (and which, indeed, should be
  > happening) nearer to users' explicitly trusted sources/controls (for
  > example, when taking in pre-built versions of Emacs' dependencies for
  > their platform, when not building those from sources).

I see your point.

However, I have a feeling that you're focusing on the free GNU/Linux
distros that we do or could recommend.  (Please correct me if I'm
mistaken.)  If that is true, what is the situation with the most
popular GNU/Linux distros, such as Ubuntu?

We avoid suggesting people use those.  But, many people use Ubuntu
despite its nonfree software, just as many do use Windows despite its
nonfree software.  Are Emacs snapshots superfluous for Ubuntu?
Is this the case for Ubuntu?

  > So, if we try to make snapshots for GNU/Linux, we are likely "chasing
  > the tail" of efforts happening (and which, indeed, should be
  > happening) nearer to users' explicitly trusted sources/controls 

This idea might be a good one:

  > A second, and likely compatible/interconnected idea to document
  > "recipies" for self-building Emacs, perhaps putting such a document
  > into admin/README.SNAPSHOT-DISTRO.

If that does the same good as making snapshots, but is less work,
we may as well take the easy way.

One question about basic info.  Could you tell me more about the
Windows snapshots that are being made?  What sources are they being
made from, and when?

-- 
Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org)
Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org)
Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)

Re: Emacs 29.0.50 Snapshot binaries for WIndows

[Corwin Brust]

On Sun, Feb 20, 2022 at 10:34 PM Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> wrote:
>
> However, I have a feeling that you're focusing on the free GNU/Linux
> distros that we do or could recommend.  (Please correct me if I'm
> mistaken.)  If that is true, what is the situation with the most
> popular GNU/Linux distros, such as Ubuntu?

That's right.  I would tend to focus on Trisequel or ARCH first.  Most
very large distributions offer packaged binaries made from Emacs
development versions such as snapshots from master or pre-releases
(e.g. from the emacs-28 branch) via volunteers working on those
distros.  Here is an example of a team that produces Emacs snapshot
builds for Ubuntu:
https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-elisp/+archive/ubuntu/ppa

>
> We avoid suggesting people use those.  But, many people use Ubuntu
> despite its nonfree software, just as many do use Windows despite its
> nonfree software.  Are Emacs snapshots superfluous for Ubuntu?
> Is this the case for Ubuntu?

Basically yes:  if I did what I do for windows for Ubuntu that work
would generally be wasted as the "Ubuntu Emacs Lisp Team" has already
done this and made their packages easy for Ubuntu users to fetch and
install via the distros package management tools.

>
>   > So, if we try to make snapshots for GNU/Linux, we are likely "chasing
>   > the tail" of efforts happening (and which, indeed, should be
>   > happening) nearer to users' explicitly trusted sources/controls
>
> This idea might be a good one:

More than for the sake of having binaries build for various distros
around, I think it might be helpful to regularly run tests against
such compiled versions.   We could also offer then for download, but I
think few people would need to use Emacs snapshot binaries.

>
> One question about basic info.  Could you tell me more about the
> Windows snapshots that are being made?  What sources are they being
> made from, and when?

Snapshots are made from the Emacs "master" branch.  Pre-releases are
made from the emacs-28 branch.  In either case, they are made by using
git to pull the latest changes down to a machine running Windows.
That machine is already loaded with compilation tools and dependencies
supplied by MSYS/MinGW.  When the binaries are finished I also create
zip files of the Emacs sources used as well as one with the sources
for the MSYS/MinGW packages used.

Here's an example set that I created yesterday adding the compilation
option to create native elisp (ELN) files for all of the included
elisp programs/libraries.  (We haven't decided to create and
distribute any "NATIVE_FULL_AOT" versions via official GNU servers,
but I wanted to try packaging one.)  The first link (README) lists and
describes each file produced by the "packaging" process I'm using to
create binaries of Emacs for Windows.  The second link lists the files
for download (from my own webserver, not any GNU resource):

https://corwin.bru.st/emacs-28/snapshots/NATIVE_FULL_AOT/README
https://corwin.bru.st/emacs-28/snapshots/NATIVE_FULL_AOT

Having automated builds of Emacs and testing reports from each one is
something I'd like to work on.  If others feel that is worth doing,
I'd be happy to coordinate efforts with/per Emacs
maintainers/devs/etc.,  In that case, the first question is probably
where/which servers to use.  If I were to take the "head-first"
approach I would use non-GNU servers to create my "proof of concept".
I think I can do that without much additional assistance from Emacs
maintainers.  I'm also happy to wait while a more considered plan is
crafted and then perhaps there will be bits of that plan I can help
with,

Kind regards,
Corwin

Re: Emacs 29.0.50 Snapshot binaries for WIndows

[Stefan Monnier]

> https://corwin.bru.st/emacs-28/snapshots/NATIVE_FULL_AOT

443MB for the src.zip ? How do you get that from a source tree which
(according to my measurements) is less than 200MB uncompressed?
Does it include the dependencies?


        Stefan

Re: Emacs 29.0.50 Snapshot binaries for WIndows

[Corwin Brust]

.TL;DR I suspect I'm not cleaning up some work product or other; wild
guess is the .git folder structure is included.

On Wed, Feb 23, 2022 at 10:41 AM Stefan Monnier
<monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> wrote:
>
> > https://corwin.bru.st/emacs-28/snapshots/NATIVE_FULL_AOT
>
> 443MB for the src.zip ? How do you get that from a source tree which
> (according to my measurements) is less than 200MB uncompressed?
> Does it include the dependencies?
>

It shouldn't.  But I create the source archive only after the build
and packaging were successful. Between, I use (only):

  git -fdx

In any case, I haven't looked into this before.  Thanks for mentioning
it.  I'll see if I can figure out what's getting in there that I don't
find in a "fresh checkout" from/of the emacs-28 branch. Probably
within a day or two.

Aside from whatever cruft removal is immediately needed, I think my
process could fairly easily be made to "notice" when file-sizes jump
around heroically. I have something now that interrupts the flow of
packaging in case I may be missing files that are part of a set
usually uploaded together.

Re: Emacs 29.0.50 Snapshot binaries for WIndows

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Corwin Brust <corwin@bru.st>
> Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2022 17:07:40 -0600
> Cc: Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org>, "H. Dieter Wilhelm" <dieter@duenenhof-wilhelm.de>, 
> 	Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>, Phillip Lord <phillip.lord@russet.org.uk>, 
> 	Emacs developers <emacs-devel@gnu.org>
> 
> > > https://corwin.bru.st/emacs-28/snapshots/NATIVE_FULL_AOT
> >
> > 443MB for the src.zip ? How do you get that from a source tree which
> > (according to my measurements) is less than 200MB uncompressed?
> > Does it include the dependencies?
> >
> 
> It shouldn't.  But I create the source archive only after the build
> and packaging were successful. Between, I use (only):
> 
>   git -fdx

If you produce the source zip from the Git tree, make sure to exclude
the .git subdirectory from the archive, or remove it (with "zip -d")
after creating the archive.

Re: Emacs 29.0.50 Snapshot binaries for WIndows

[Corwin Brust]

On Thu, Feb 24, 2022 at 12:55 AM Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:
>
> If you produce the source zip from the Git tree, make sure to exclude
> the .git subdirectory from the archive, or remove it (with "zip -d")
> after creating the archive.

I was producing from the source tree.  I'm now taking care to avoid
including the .git folder, using this:

  zip -9r ${WORKING_DIR}/emacs${RELEASE_ID}-src.zip . -x .git/ .git/\*

I put a new set here, for the moment; TIA for letting me know of
(more) problems. (These reflect the emacs-28 branch as of an hour or
so ago and have native full ahead-of-time enabled.)

https://corwin.bru.st/emacs-28/

Re: Emacs 29.0.50 Snapshot binaries for WIndows

[Phillip Lord]

Corwin Brust <corwin@bru.st> writes:

> On Thu, Feb 24, 2022 at 12:55 AM Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:
>>
>> If you produce the source zip from the Git tree, make sure to exclude
>> the .git subdirectory from the archive, or remove it (with "zip -d")
>> after creating the archive.
>
> I was producing from the source tree.  I'm now taking care to avoid
> including the .git folder, using this:
>
>   zip -9r ${WORKING_DIR}/emacs${RELEASE_ID}-src.zip . -x .git/ .git/\*
>
> I put a new set here, for the moment; TIA for letting me know of
> (more) problems. (These reflect the emacs-28 branch as of an hour or
> so ago and have native full ahead-of-time enabled.)
>
> https://corwin.bru.st/emacs-28/


Apologies, I forgot to document how I did this bit -- I had some shell
scripts that launched build-zips.sh and it is they that produced the
source.

It's actually fairly simple and Emacs already supports it!

pushd master
echo Making Source
## Make the source so we can distribute it, but don't update because
## we've build in a different directory. --no-changelog is also needed
## because otherwise we run make which runs configure
./make-dist --snapshot --no-check --no-changelog
rename .tar _`date +%Y-%m-%d`.tar emacs*.tar.gz
mv emacs-*.tar.gz ~/emacs-upload
popd

"make-dist" is slightly confusing as a name in this context but, of
course, the distribution it refers to is the source one.


Phil

Re: Emacs 29.0.50 Snapshot binaries for WIndows

[Richard Stallman]

[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

  > > However, I have a feeling that you're focusing on the free GNU/Linux
  > > distros that we do or could recommend.  (Please correct me if I'm
  > > mistaken.)  If that is true, what is the situation with the most
  > > popular GNU/Linux distros, such as Ubuntu?

  > That's right.  I would tend to focus on Trisequel or ARCH first.  Most
  > very large distributions offer packaged binaries made from Emacs
  > development versions such as snapshots from master or pre-releases
  > (e.g. from the emacs-28 branch) via volunteers working on those
  > distros.  Here is an example of a team that produces Emacs snapshot
  > builds for Ubuntu:
  > https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-elisp/+archive/ubuntu/ppa

It sounds like the popular distros are well-handled, in this.

Snapshots may not be pertinent to Arch.  Doesn't Arch use the approach
that each user builds from source?  Also, it is not a free distro

The free distros Parabola, Hyperbola and Guix also use that approach,
right?  So maybe snapshots are not pertinent to them.

I'm glad to see that there is no actual problem of the sort
I was worried about.



-- 
Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org)
Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org)
Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)