From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Po Lu Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Turning on savehist-mode by default Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2023 21:31:49 +0800 Message-ID: <8734w1x8e2.fsf@yahoo.com> References: <87wmufm7r7.fsf@catern.com> <83h6kikkag.fsf@gnu.org> <8334w1l12c.fsf@gnu.org> <877cldxd71.fsf@yahoo.com> <83jzpdj9qn.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="28785"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Cc: stefankangas@gmail.com, sbaugh@catern.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Dec 17 14:33:14 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1rErGb-0007Io-5J for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 17 Dec 2023 14:33:13 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rErFe-0000zd-38; Sun, 17 Dec 2023 08:32:14 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rErFc-0000yz-24 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 17 Dec 2023 08:32:12 -0500 Original-Received: from sonic308-56.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com ([66.163.187.31]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rErFZ-0002eH-01 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 17 Dec 2023 08:32:11 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1702819922; bh=2mgiFvc32dg183Qf/O1z4byPaalknmQzM2DwAm5mbvs=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From:Subject:Reply-To; b=oZp6IaZ5sk5gy+2DGuWFAv9mf5jCauw2MEA0LdIckYx9WOVcfR3YRx3yonyt7uySvUe6iX+5UI2zuQKaXyXGMLQvIoBqSyKhIfa6NUgCA2WLn88qYVc9OsfRoyoUg875rPPoXgw3bO8MGJfDym4lC+Q8UqzT0oKk0KYDjSOKyXfKTK7L3adFcvFijZZJwx95Hxf4gb1WyjGRj+mQVy63QL+QEqbNiBPxNPhYExJ1pV7UBzBNbIX2A6q3nrud/Vfhq78lYEuuXhBqjEuxPRBusZ+oCuEcywHJAMi5iay3/o4h2mw5g6/hvxI6vrMkTLFViSQzRGjqjRMd+tsaJ49KeA== X-SONIC-DKIM-SIGN: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1702819922; bh=ZVe2OFrbDR53pEpr7WtnFq85+yzo6MxhWfXBo7IZI/F=; h=X-Sonic-MF:From:To:Subject:Date:From:Subject; b=IBBS/fhrlZGNhgkxtYQhRPb6CKlxl2F3NRFZHVawOD+HcrbZa/vGxzRk5yn9tvConKpmeDwiZX2u7KxXUHl6BTxY8VVFpPhwOCOMNPGUjHtCOPNWi8lt7dkDBnBooGSZEP/nW+mklHXQrJnCNEOrH3dkJudsR/qTdXFf8/Y8uKRGDuI5SAvj+89G4u8k/lXc5mSNK+XE9SD3XRPT8qO+YksfhZVs8bfUUQGr9IjuTXHtrE6PK/wL1/erMa7tpQlF6Ndd3v6Ivy3x60zyzbBmKLCxKxR97h13qZryrFII4pQs9IwMz8MhUfDiNo0xl3zqpn1gnqUGOsWQJWep1lwW7g== X-YMail-OSG: yLxmlfoVM1mJLfhjWMBJQc.2tdF_tqGKfRF1uTx9Y2bI0TBohN5BQPo.XWK4F.h qajiTFYIEN8bcPxB_SC._YLbHiOTIoYgHXermMak1a2gLnE50cwPxdr2cK3snBG2dDS_4cMdcpEz G1Rl8P_BBqgYvE_9H5Ybe96c6Zo_AeiPxrwMaAM1cf7uatOiqjU1vJL6XPZm0j86R06cbKQZHU_g ah.wbCiGYQSEvQ_koepS623vZRNtPEuT7PmR57fVrqcdsHUxtIjOMy0WGsQjtshUT0GYt5umQwxQ l7DTzUnKICRg9GQ_QLF43obEzr6Di7cdlMXec7tWLiDdyQJL0t8quUj12ZMBFYQf3ceJFSslPlzN EZ.b969sRqAKHlCqMBf7Nxg0ZjCqjdnVPLwKYkINzPwFPPUv2YjEKkdXyUTgcrKBBqm8A.jsHl_2 PxSo34ncbUYK__4znTqI0PHh_DgL9mh.oFLfojoCcf3R.AjWVBrm5TIWg2eQ_xn5oHPmssfIG_Gc 7I0mtmaBzO1iSDVwSm6MImsqvYYjnBN8t4gzGlUaWf6RQG95ePypaJQl_7.WK_IE.pdXlrOp1Hdn QHHiZnNT3jinUgbxy4j5PGHVyWb7VDBILtOo4S.J6Z1JlLadYgwuwd8P7Y1RMBBQT0JywVtR1EBa aqOt4j.dZ.vaBCrERtcE8cEimnP3WMm.O2OMuTsxmeg3QIfQ1zRPXWqI8tKoDfx2kWHi_nAQVnxV ii5n24LHt6UCi4j2KXISeAU9b_IWFkqyvVYA3nYyJn4JBPb533vmo4U0ZOQPCaybfsfY89UcZZjx r1mdDKYcQ9djtPueou_kEcJNFqorjMZDzKYXIS4F3z X-Sonic-MF: X-Sonic-ID: 9d2e242e-0cff-4c8c-858c-0a4b8b577a0d Original-Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic308.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Sun, 17 Dec 2023 13:32:02 +0000 Original-Received: by hermes--production-sg3-65d57d948b-bq97j (Yahoo Inc. Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 262a74d52d9d78d2c0b8551c3535dd2e; Sun, 17 Dec 2023 13:31:58 +0000 (UTC) In-Reply-To: <83jzpdj9qn.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sun, 17 Dec 2023 14:26:24 +0200") X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.21952 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo Received-SPF: pass client-ip=66.163.187.31; envelope-from=luangruo@yahoo.com; helo=sonic308-56.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:313925 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: > Turning off savehist-mode will fix all of those, no? > > You are basically describing something that can happen with any Emacs > feature that is turned on by default. The solution is to turn them > off when you want to avoid any of their effects. I routinely do that > with blink-cursor-mode, global-eldoc-mode, and sometimes others, when > they might get in the way. Or invoke "emacs -D". Point taken. Still, savehist-mode is more intrusive than those features one might disable in the course of developing redisplay. > That's true, but using such multiple sessions (as opposed to a single > session) is a personal preference. Resisting some change in the > defaults because it adversely affects you personally is not a valid > argument in my book, since defaults exist so users could tweak them. > If it turns out a vast majority of users want savehist on by default, > then you and myself will need to adapt -- and the way to adapt is very > easy. [...] > Sorry, I see no problem to solve here, except in the customizations of > those who routinely run multiple sessions on the same system with the > same HOME directory. The natural extension of this line of reasoning is to regard every feature we wish to eliminate (or banish behind some user option) as a "user preference," which is quite the slippery slope. But that isn't what is being proposed here, so I digress. My reservations about this are in large part just that no evidence has been presented demonstrating that the absence of savehist-mode or its position as a feature disabled by default has made life difficult for many users, who might as easily enable it in _their_ customizations. Conjecture from practiced Emacs users (like the OP) comparing Emacs against other like programs is of little value, and there are as many programs that prompt users for commands to input without saving them to a history file as there are that do. The GIMP comes to mind; no history is saved by any of its command dialogs, such as the one that pops up when you type /.