From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Chong Yidong Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Transient Mark Mode on by default Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2008 17:34:50 -0400 Message-ID: <871w5pfedh.fsf@stupidchicken.com> References: <87myopnj0l.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <20080324200911.GA1310@muc.de> <001e01c88dee$34267e90$c2b22382@us.oracle.com> <20080324210229.GB1310@muc.de> <47F128AA.6000905@emf.net> <87y77ybf3x.fsf@kfs-lx.rd.rdm> <85hcemhzj4.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1207108881 32548 80.91.229.12 (2 Apr 2008 04:01:21 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 04:01:21 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Thomas Lord , rms@gnu.org, M Jared Finder , emacs-devel@gnu.org, Stefan Monnier , "Kim F. Storm" To: David Kastrup Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Apr 02 06:01:52 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1JguAX-0001QQ-IQ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 02 Apr 2008 06:01:49 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Jgu9v-0007c0-FU for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 02 Apr 2008 00:01:11 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Jgu9e-0007SJ-Rf for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 02 Apr 2008 00:00:54 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Jgu9b-0007PV-Ql for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 02 Apr 2008 00:00:54 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Jgu9a-0007PF-TY for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 02 Apr 2008 00:00:51 -0400 Original-Received: from mx20.gnu.org ([199.232.41.8]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Jgu9T-0004tT-Oj; Wed, 02 Apr 2008 00:00:43 -0400 Original-Received: from cyd.mit.edu ([18.115.2.24]) by mx20.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1JgoBO-0000go-NX; Tue, 01 Apr 2008 17:38:18 -0400 Original-Received: by cyd.mit.edu (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 852C64E3F7; Tue, 1 Apr 2008 17:34:50 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <85hcemhzj4.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> (David Kastrup's message of "Tue, 01 Apr 2008 08:14:55 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.0.60 (gnu/linux) X-detected-kernel: by mx20.gnu.org: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:94166 Archived-At: David Kastrup writes: >>> So all-in-all I really don't see why everybody is making a lot of >>> fuzz over making shift-select a 1st class emacs feature -- when >>> we could just as well just leave it to CUA mode to DTRT, but possibly >>> make a few enhancements to basic Emacs functionalities to assist CUA >>> mode to do its work. >> >> I'd tend to agree. Maybe we should make cua-mode more visible and be >> done with it. > > It is right there in the (sparsely populated) "Options" menu. In my > opinion, that is as good as it gets. cua-selection-mode is not available in the Options menu. I wouldn't mind adding an additional menu item for it, but if so, I think it should be on by default. There are two good reasons for providing shift-selection by default. Firstly, new users expect shift-selection. Secondly, unlike the other features provided by cua-mode, shift-selection does not change the existing Emacs control scheme in any significant way, since shift-arrow keys are currently undefined key sequences (which, for convenience, we translate into unshifted keys). The reason that we started this long discussion about making shift-selection a 1st class feature is that people weren't happy about the way cua-selection-mode works (e.g., using the post-command hooks), which prevents it from being turned on by default. Furthermore, making shift-selection a 1st class feature isn't too difficult, as I've previously shown. It also has the advantage of integrating with and complementing mouse-selection (e.g., you can select a region with the mouse, then extend it with shift-selection).