From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stephen Berman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: bug#1405: detached GTK+ tool bar Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2008 00:08:16 +0100 Message-ID: <871vx34avz.fsf@escher.local.home> References: <87hc5zcug7.fsf__14536.3282565542$1227390743$gmane$org@cyd.mit.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1227395318 10846 80.91.229.12 (22 Nov 2008 23:08:38 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2008 23:08:38 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Jan =?utf-8?Q?Dj=C3=A4rv?= , 1405@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Chong Yidong Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Nov 23 00:09:39 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1L41be-0000n4-6x for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 23 Nov 2008 00:09:38 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55446 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1L41aV-0004q6-5D for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 22 Nov 2008 18:08:27 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1L41aQ-0004pf-KT for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 22 Nov 2008 18:08:22 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1L41aP-0004pJ-2A for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 22 Nov 2008 18:08:22 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=54632 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1L41aO-0004pG-Vg for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 22 Nov 2008 18:08:20 -0500 Original-Received: from mail.gmx.net ([213.165.64.20]:50345) by monty-python.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1L41aP-0005eX-69 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 22 Nov 2008 18:08:21 -0500 Original-Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 22 Nov 2008 23:08:17 -0000 Original-Received: from i59F56E84.versanet.de (EHLO escher.local.home) [89.245.110.132] by mail.gmx.net (mp021) with SMTP; 23 Nov 2008 00:08:17 +0100 X-Authenticated: #20778731 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1/0IAQX9NL0aHBgcL4rHPCdkvtaTUbQ9jTJoj1g91 ZbB/MLctvL6hxw Original-Received: by escher.local.home (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 692887FF8E; Sun, 23 Nov 2008 00:08:16 +0100 (CET) In-Reply-To: <87hc5zcug7.fsf__14536.3282565542$1227390743$gmane$org@cyd.mit.edu> (Chong Yidong's message of "Sat, 22 Nov 2008 16:38:32 -0500") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.0.60 (gnu/linux) X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-FuHaFi: 0.57 X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:105980 Archived-At: On Sat, 22 Nov 2008 16:38:32 -0500 Chong Yidong wrote: > Excerpted from bug#1405: > >> ... >> Perhaps this is a GTK+ bug, but I'm not aware of another GTK+ app >> aside from Emacs that uses a detachable tool bar to test for it. > > When Emacs got detachable tool bars, it was the standard for GTK > applications to provide a detachable tool bar. Nowadays, no other GTK > application provides a detachable tool bar as far as I can tell. (Maybe > this feature was considered useless?) So maybe we should turn this off. > > Jan, what do you think? There is a practical argument in favor of keeping the detachable tool bar, namely, the "shrinking frame" bug I reported to emacs-devel a year ago (see http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel/83390). This bug still exists, and when it happens -- very often, in my usage -- it is quite annoying. But with the tool bar detached, it does not happen. So with a detachable tool bar, I don't suffer a shrinking frame and I get to use the tool bar; without a detachable tool bar, I'd have to choose one or the other (or change (some aspect(s) of) my desktop). (Of course, if the shrinking frame bug is fixed, it would eliminate this argument for a detachable tool bar. A remaining argument, but one less important to me, is that a detachable tool bar saves screen real estate.) Steve Berman