From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Ted Zlatanov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs core TLS support Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 08:09:46 -0600 Organization: =?utf-8?B?0KLQtdC+0LTQvtGAINCX0LvQsNGC0LDQvdC+0LI=?= @ Cienfuegos Message-ID: <871vhsvkut.fsf@lifelogs.com> References: <878wc1vfh3.fsf@lifelogs.com> <87r5ptpnz2.fsf@stupidchicken.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1263478871 5309 80.91.229.12 (14 Jan 2010 14:21:11 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 14:21:11 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Simon Josefsson To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Jan 14 15:21:03 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1NVQZJ-0005TW-Uy for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 14 Jan 2010 15:21:02 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40373 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NVQZK-0002h5-ER for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 14 Jan 2010 09:21:02 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1NVQPA-0004G5-Qj for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 14 Jan 2010 09:10:32 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1NVQP6-0004Df-7P for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 14 Jan 2010 09:10:32 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=34610 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NVQP5-0004Da-TU for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 14 Jan 2010 09:10:27 -0500 Original-Received: from lo.gmane.org ([80.91.229.12]:37458) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1NVQP5-0007gf-8Y for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 14 Jan 2010 09:10:27 -0500 Original-Received: from list by lo.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1NVQOs-0000Vj-Cv for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 14 Jan 2010 15:10:14 +0100 Original-Received: from 38.98.147.130 ([38.98.147.130]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 2010 15:10:14 +0100 Original-Received: from tzz by 38.98.147.130 with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 2010 15:10:14 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 35 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 38.98.147.130 X-Face: bd.DQ~'29fIs`T_%O%C\g%6jW)yi[zuz6; d4V0`@y-~$#3P_Ng{@m+e4o<4P'#(_GJQ%TT= D}[Ep*b!\e,fBZ'j_+#"Ps?s2!4H2-Y"sx" User-Agent: Gnus/5.110011 (No Gnus v0.11) Emacs/23.1.90 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:yjs8xsTH8V8cnM8eGm8jE7Hd1t0= X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:119990 Archived-At: On Wed, 13 Jan 2010 18:46:41 -0500 Chong Yidong wrote: CY> Ted Zlatanov writes: >> Is there any chance Emacs can offer core support for TLS-encrypted >> network connections? I have no idea what's involved, I'm just checking >> on the possibility. CY> What's the advantage of offering core support over using gnutls-cli CY> (like starttls.el does)? On Wed, 13 Jan 2010 20:37:42 -0500 MON KEY wrote: MK> It is far more apt to work "out of the box " on on w32... Portability is one consideration. The parts of Gnus that touch W32 through starttls.el have been a sore point in terms of support, both offered (too little) and requested (too much). I don't have a list of issues on hand but at least 5 have come up in the last year IIRC. gnutls-cli and the alternative starttls binary are external binaries. For encryption protocols like TLS it's both inefficient and insecure to use external binaries to implement them. In addition to portability, efficiency, and security, core support would also be easier to configure if it requires no external binaries installed. New users would surely benefit from this. Simon Josefsson already put a patch together at http://josefsson.org/securemacs but it will probably need to be revised a bit, the last change was in 2002. It offers gnutls.el as an alternative to starttls.el, with a similar API. As long as this is optional and autodetected through configure, I don't see a downside. It may need to be folded into starttls.el but that's not a big deal. I'm cc-ing Simon in case he has any comments. Ted