From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Ted Zlatanov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Integrating package.el Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2010 11:14:16 -0600 Organization: =?utf-8?B?0KLQtdC+0LTQvtGAINCX0LvQsNGC0LDQvdC+0LI=?= @ Cienfuegos Message-ID: <871vg4q80n.fsf@lifelogs.com> References: <87ocl167wx.fsf@hagelb.org> <8763795zsh.fsf@hagelb.org> <87r5pmwcf8.fsf@hagelb.org> <87ocjh2hyp.fsf@lifelogs.com> <873a0qxrd1.fsf@lifelogs.com> <87635gqe8k.fsf@lifelogs.com> <201bac3a1003010832n4973a6d5s29d3db5de84c4c41@mail.gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1267463978 4957 80.91.229.12 (1 Mar 2010 17:19:38 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 17:19:38 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Mar 01 18:19:34 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Nm9HJ-0002up-Df for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 01 Mar 2010 18:19:33 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53409 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Nm9HI-00017f-IA for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 01 Mar 2010 12:19:32 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Nm9DU-00079Z-Vr for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 01 Mar 2010 12:15:37 -0500 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=42539 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Nm9Cm-0005z3-EX for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 01 Mar 2010 12:15:36 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Nm9CY-0002oT-O2 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 01 Mar 2010 12:14:39 -0500 Original-Received: from lo.gmane.org ([80.91.229.12]:39008) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Nm9CY-0002oH-E4 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 01 Mar 2010 12:14:38 -0500 Original-Received: from list by lo.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Nm9CP-0008Oe-73 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 01 Mar 2010 18:14:29 +0100 Original-Received: from 38.98.147.130 ([38.98.147.130]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Mon, 01 Mar 2010 18:14:29 +0100 Original-Received: from tzz by 38.98.147.130 with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Mon, 01 Mar 2010 18:14:29 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 56 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 38.98.147.130 X-Face: bd.DQ~'29fIs`T_%O%C\g%6jW)yi[zuz6; d4V0`@y-~$#3P_Ng{@m+e4o<4P'#(_GJQ%TT= D}[Ep*b!\e,fBZ'j_+#"Ps?s2!4H2-Y"sx" User-Agent: Gnus/5.110011 (No Gnus v0.11) Emacs/23.1.91 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:JEAURy4b6U38HegSBRAsQ3+5y1U= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:121501 Archived-At: On Mon, 1 Mar 2010 17:32:21 +0100 Jonas Bernoulli wrote: JB> (I am rather confused by the mixture of quoting styles.) >>>> Emacs could recognize the Version header and always track it internally >>>> when it loads a library file, maybe with a (version . "1.2") in the >>>> load-history. That would help a lot, I think. JB> Absolutely. However this information is missing from a lot of JB> libraries. Also even if library contain version information it is JB> still uncommon that libraries state what version of their JB> dependencies are actually required. Cedet contains something like JB> this - has this portion of cedet been merged into 23.2? We have to start somewhere. Tracking dependencies is not possible until versions are consistent so I think it's OK to use (version . nil) in the load-history for the libraries that don't have a version header. JB> If such an extended `require' form (or similar standardized JB> information in the library header) are not adopted there is no way JB> to automatically extract this information. JB> This means that maintainers of package repositories have to figure JB> it out manually or just leave this information out completely. I am JB> mirroring 2100 packages - I won't do it manually. I think it's reasonable to also require unit and integration tests for packages, at least for those that are considered "reliable" by the packaging system, to accomplish these goals. But these are long-term goals and I think they merit a separate discussion on emacs-devel. I'll start the discussion with my (as usual) naive questions :) SM> I personnally don't care about the behavior if the user tries to SM> activate two different versions of the same package in a given session. JB> If I remember correctly what he meant to say was that loading JB> multiple versions is a user error. Having multiple versions JB> installed is still an option as is choosing a particular version by JB> the user (as opposed to the sysadmin) at runtime. Does elm.el support that scheme as package.el does, distinguishing between package installation (with a versioned install dir) and package activation? >> OK. But I still think Emacs should record the version as I suggested >> whenever it finds it in a .el/.elc file. It would help resolve many >> annoying user-level bugs by showing exactly what version of the library >> was loaded, not implied from the directory but directly from the version >> header. Does that require lots of changes? JB> I agree. But as explained above this still doesn't help the package JB> manager to determine which version of a dependency is required. Yes, in this context I only meant to say it would save time when debugging user errors. Ted