From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: delete-selection-mode Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 09:07:29 +0100 Organization: Organization?!? Message-ID: <871vfgviny.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> References: <87ocitw2dl.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <201003130001.o2D01FFQ003489@godzilla.ics.uci.edu> <87vdd1yqe4.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <87eijjzrkd.fsf_-_@mail.jurta.org> <20100317143519.GB4381@muc.de> <87vdcui6oh.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <20100318101223.GB2704@muc.de> <400FB8EA6FB8499AB34297A77E9DCB49@us.oracle.com> <87bpelxyu7.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <87vdcsvn2h.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1268986079 32446 80.91.229.12 (19 Mar 2010 08:07:59 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 08:07:59 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Mar 19 09:07:53 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NsXFI-0007ia-Ti for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 19 Mar 2010 09:07:53 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53333 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NsXFI-0004UK-BA for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 19 Mar 2010 04:07:52 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1NsXFB-0004U2-SF for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 19 Mar 2010 04:07:45 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=53456 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NsXFA-0004Tm-77 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 19 Mar 2010 04:07:45 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NsXF8-0005YH-FQ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 19 Mar 2010 04:07:44 -0400 Original-Received: from lo.gmane.org ([80.91.229.12]:40077) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NsXF8-0005Y2-4U for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 19 Mar 2010 04:07:42 -0400 Original-Received: from list by lo.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NsXF5-0007eL-LS for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 19 Mar 2010 09:07:39 +0100 Original-Received: from p5b2c294b.dip.t-dialin.net ([91.44.41.75]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2010 09:07:39 +0100 Original-Received: from dak by p5b2c294b.dip.t-dialin.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2010 09:07:39 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 45 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: p5b2c294b.dip.t-dialin.net X-Face: 2FEFf>]>q>2iw=B6, xrUubRI>pR&Ml9=ao@P@i)L:\urd*t9M~y1^:+Y]'C0~{mAl`oQuAl \!3KEIp?*w`|bL5qr,H)LFO6Q=qx~iH4DN; i"; /yuIsqbLLCh/!U#X[S~(5eZ41to5f%E@'ELIi$t^ Vc\LWP@J5p^rst0+('>Er0=^1{]M9!p?&:\z]|;&=NP3AhB!B_bi^]Pfkw User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.1.92 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:xjezV6+hM1SJK7VgvTHCL0g2Au0= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:122264 Archived-At: "Drew Adams" writes: >> >> With transient-mark-mode, it will be active by default, >> >> even when you just wanted to manipulate the mark. >> > >> > C-u C-SPC instead of C-SPC. Or just turn off t-m-mode. >> >> If you can't remember, a newbie would? > > a. Your citation is off. Presumably, you meant to quote Stefan correcting my > mention of C-u C-SPC instead of C-SPC C-SPC. Ever type one thing and think > another? Mea culpa - I did. > > b. I don't actually use C-SPC C-SPC. I don't use the "temporary > transient-mark-mode" (or its opposite). Ever. But you might want to. > > I use `delete-selection-mode' - that's it. If I ever need to deactivate the > region, I use C-g. I've used d-s-mode for decades - long before any temporary > t-m-mode existed. Then perhaps you should leave the discussion until those that remember life without delete-selection-mode have sorted out the problems with making it the default. The Emacs way of getting a feature activated by default is not throwing a tantrum until everybody gives in, but making the feature work smoothly with other use cases and workflows. That is the way to overcome resistance. Throwing tantrums, in contrast, distracts from the work, thoughts, and discussions that are needed to properly make a feature fit in as a part with the rest of Emacs. Your point is abundantly clear: "I want delete-selection-mode enabled and nothing else changed". Everybody got it by now. Repeating it without reacting to anything other people bring up is not going to help resolve those points. So you might want to stay off this discussion for a week or so and see whether people make progress with plans about moving Emacs towards a state where delete-selection-mode as a default is less of a bad idea as it is now. It is obvious that you are not wanting to participate in any such discussion in a constructive way. -- David Kastrup