From: "Stephen J. Turnbull" <stephen@xemacs.org>
To: Juanma Barranquero <lekktu@gmail.com>
Cc: Lennart Borgman <lennart.borgman@gmail.com>,
"emacs-devel@gnu.org" <emacs-devel@gnu.org>
Subject: Re: Efforts to attract more users?
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 09:23:48 +0900 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <871vb9k0ob.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimw-SXJmcHXRxinVctdRoUwV3xRUDbC5XbKSgJd@mail.gmail.com>
Back to the "attract more users" thread. Specifically, "attract more
user/developers."
Juanma Barranquero writes:
> On Sat, Jul 10, 2010 at 02:28, Lennart Borgman
> <lennart.borgman@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I told you at that time how to do the merge. You seemed to believe it
> > could be done another way.
>
> Yes, you told me "here's my code, please adapt it to the trunk, as I
> don't have time to do it myself" (not exact quote, but that's the
> feeling).
That's not the feeling I get at all. I don't have complete sympathy
for Lennart, there is clearly some aspect of contributing to Emacs
that he just doesn't get, leading to blocked communication with
disheartening frequency. However, "take it or leave it" is NOT AT ALL
what I get from his posts. There a separate issue, that when you
submit working code to Emacs, you will be told to change it in ways
that give you heartburn. Lennart has had *multiple* experiences where
he has submitted working code, communications over the integration
break down, and his code was refused, without anybody ever doing more
than looking at it and saying "that can't work" (usually with a
theoretical rationale that for whatever reason Lennart doesn't get).
While (as I mention above), Lennart has to take some responsibility
for the communications breakdown, I cannot at all blame him for not
wanting to go through that again.
One of the nice things about working on <beep>Emacs and <boop>Emacs,
as well as projects like Python, Mailman, and Bazaar, is that
sometimes (not always, of course) other people will do the work that
you for whatever reason don't want to do.
It's a shame that GNU Emacs, of all the projects in the world, feels
so impoverished that its developers can't take time out to mentor
somebody like Lennart, show him the ropes, and *teach* him how to make
submissions that get accepted the first time around and require only
minor adjustments and checks before integration to the trunk. I think
in this case the proposed change is such an obvious winner that it's
only Emacs-side stubbornness that prevents it from being implemented.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2010-07-12 0:23 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 103+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2010-07-08 5:31 Efforts to attract more users? Ken Hori
2010-07-08 7:44 ` joakim
2010-07-08 13:28 ` Adrian Robert
2010-07-08 14:26 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-07-08 14:53 ` Stuart Hacking
2010-07-09 21:46 ` Richard Stallman
2010-07-09 22:52 ` Christoph
2010-07-09 23:53 ` Chong Yidong
2010-07-10 14:51 ` Richard Stallman
2010-07-10 14:55 ` Christoph
2010-07-08 15:09 ` Teemu Likonen
2010-07-08 13:54 ` Stuart Hacking
2010-07-09 3:05 ` Richard Stallman
2010-07-09 3:24 ` Bernardo Barros
2010-07-09 15:01 ` Stephen Eilert
2010-07-09 20:25 ` Rolando Pereira
2010-07-09 7:26 ` Aneesh Kumar K. V
2010-07-09 11:02 ` Lennart Borgman
2010-07-09 7:31 ` christian.lynbech
2010-07-09 11:04 ` Lennart Borgman
2010-07-09 11:24 ` Juanma Barranquero
2010-07-09 11:41 ` Lennart Borgman
2010-07-09 12:58 ` Juanma Barranquero
2010-07-09 13:09 ` Lennart Borgman
2010-07-09 16:09 ` Dan Nicolaescu
2010-07-09 16:42 ` Lennart Borgman
2010-07-09 17:05 ` Dan Nicolaescu
2010-07-09 17:07 ` Lennart Borgman
2010-07-09 17:24 ` Dan Nicolaescu
2010-07-09 17:29 ` Drew Adams
2010-07-10 0:03 ` Juanma Barranquero
2010-07-10 19:15 ` Chong Yidong
2010-07-11 2:43 ` Lennart Borgman
2010-07-10 0:03 ` Juanma Barranquero
2010-07-10 0:11 ` Lennart Borgman
2010-07-10 0:16 ` Juanma Barranquero
2010-07-10 0:28 ` Lennart Borgman
2010-07-10 23:43 ` Juanma Barranquero
2010-07-11 2:40 ` Lennart Borgman
2010-07-11 2:56 ` Juanma Barranquero
2010-07-11 3:13 ` Lennart Borgman
2010-07-12 0:23 ` Stephen J. Turnbull [this message]
2010-07-12 1:41 ` Juanma Barranquero
2010-07-12 7:43 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-07-12 8:20 ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-07-12 12:37 ` Richard Stallman
2010-07-12 13:22 ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-07-12 8:21 ` David Kastrup
2010-07-12 7:19 ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-07-12 8:05 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-07-12 8:33 ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-07-12 8:38 ` Deniz Dogan
2010-07-12 8:53 ` David Kastrup
2010-07-09 7:33 ` Emacs learning curve (was Re: Efforts to attract more users?) christian.lynbech
2010-07-09 7:43 ` Emacs learning curve Masatake YAMATO
2010-07-09 11:01 ` Efforts to attract more users? Lennart Borgman
2010-07-11 4:37 ` Miles Bader
2010-07-11 10:48 ` Lennart Borgman
2010-07-11 13:24 ` Miles Bader
2010-07-11 13:55 ` Lennart Borgman
2010-07-11 13:59 ` Miles Bader
2010-07-11 14:13 ` Lennart Borgman
2010-07-11 14:24 ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-07-11 15:01 ` Alan Mackenzie
2010-07-11 15:31 ` Bernardo Barros
2010-07-11 17:28 ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-07-11 21:25 ` John Yates
2010-07-12 7:37 ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-07-12 12:36 ` Richard Stallman
2010-07-12 12:47 ` Stephen Eilert
2010-07-12 16:01 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-07-12 17:25 ` Bernardo Barros
2010-07-12 17:40 ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-07-13 1:33 ` Why not Qt4? (hi, Drew! was: Efforts to attract more users?) Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-07-13 2:37 ` Efforts to attract more users? Miles Bader
2010-07-13 13:51 ` Richard Stallman
2010-07-13 13:56 ` Deniz Dogan
2010-07-13 15:07 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2010-07-13 15:52 ` Deniz Dogan
2010-07-13 16:17 ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-07-13 15:24 ` Bernardo Barros
2010-07-12 0:25 ` Lennart Borgman
2010-07-11 14:52 ` Bernardo Barros
2010-07-11 15:49 ` Chong Yidong
2010-07-12 0:24 ` Lennart Borgman
2010-07-12 9:42 ` joakim
2010-07-09 12:05 ` Eric M. Ludlam
2010-07-09 12:23 ` Alex Ott
2010-07-09 14:33 ` Aneesh Kumar K. V
2010-07-12 1:57 ` CEDET speed issues [was Re: Efforts to attract more users?] Eric M. Ludlam
2010-07-09 15:39 ` Efforts to attract more users? Leo
2010-07-10 19:05 ` Tom Tromey
2010-07-08 16:56 ` Drew Adams
2010-07-08 23:28 ` Dan Nicolaescu
2010-07-08 23:56 ` Fren Zeee
2010-07-09 0:22 ` Bernardo Barros
2010-08-02 13:24 ` Stefan Monnier
2010-08-02 13:32 ` Bernardo Barros
2010-08-02 20:15 ` Stefan Monnier
2010-08-02 20:30 ` Lennart Borgman
2010-08-02 20:39 ` Jay Belanger
2010-08-03 6:40 ` Andreas Röhler
2010-08-03 8:11 ` Stuart Hacking
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